Author Topic: The Woman at the Well + Passover and Unleavend Bread (Read 1440 times)

RTSmaniac · « **on:** March 28, 2011, 11:23:09 PM »

I cant seem to find the post on Woman at the Well + Passover and Unleavend Bread.

What was the ruling on this combo? I RA with WatW search for an EC and place it on the bottom of deck...

The Woman at the Well (TP)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 3 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search opponent’s deck for a Lost Soul and a human Evil Character and put them in opponent’s territory. Cannot be negated. • Play As: Search opponent’s deck for a Lost Soul and a human Evil Character and place them in opponent’s territory. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: NT Female Human, Samaria • Verse: John 4:7 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Passover & Unleavened Bread (Pi)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal/Red • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn. For the next one of those Heroes that enters battle, return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner’s draw pile. • Play As: Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn. On return, for the first of those Heroes that enters battle, place an Evil Character in play beneath owner’s deck. • Identifiers: OT, Feast • Verse: Leviticus 23:5-6 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2011, 11:37:47 PM »

I'm pretty sure it came down to a NO, you can't. Forgot the exact reason.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:45:47 AM »

yea couldnt find the thread-looking for the explanation besides "OH ITS BROKEN"

passover gained errata?

needs to be in errata or new rulings or something?

Isildur · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:10:47 AM »

~~Its my understanding that Passover Happens before Woman at the Well. Similar to how preparations is played.~~

Bryon · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:35:49 AM »

It looks legal to me. I didn't read the previous thread, though, so I might have missed something.

STAMP · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:15:51 PM »

Bryon is correct.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:22:00 PM »

Sauce is both correct and handsome.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:53:45 PM »

I know there was an issue with Asahel and Passover and Unleavened bread to essentially become an insta-win...

crustpope · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:03:24 PM »

so Asahel' s ctb ability happens after passover and unleavened bread correct?

Korunks · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:22:50 PM »

As much as I loathe the ruling on Passover and Unleavened bread I am thinking that in this case the issue with Asahel does not apply. Lets check the Order of Operations table:

Quote from: Bryon on July 21, 2006, 01:20:51 PM

CARDS WITH MULTIPLE SPECIAL ABILITIES

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.

So we:

1: Search opponent’s deck for a Lost Soul and a human Evil Character and put them in opponent’s territory. (Because the ability is not adding a character to battle)

2: Then we return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner’s draw pile. (Gained ability from P&UB)

3-5 N/A

Why would this be an issue? This combo should work. This not the same as the issue with Asahel because no one is being added to battle. Good find.

crustpope · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:29:06 PM »

that is what I figured. WATW works but not asahel because the gained ability happens before his choose the blocker ability.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2011, 03:01:54 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 29, 2011, 02:22:50 PM

As much as I loathe the ruling on Passover and Unleavened bread I am thinking that in this case the issue with Asahel does not apply. Lets check the Order of Operations table:

Quote from: Bryon on July 21, 2006, 01:20:51 PM
CARDS WITH MULTIPLE SPECIAL ABILITIES

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.

So we:

1: Search opponent’s deck for a Lost Soul and a human Evil Character and put them in opponent’s territory. (Because the ability is not adding a character to battle)

2: Then we return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner’s draw pile. (Gained ability from P&UB)

3-5 N/A

Why would this be an issue? This combo should work. This not the same as the issue with Asahel because no one is being added to battle. Good find.

I think the reason why is because P&UB is considered a triggered ability, not a gained ability. Triggered abilities come after all 5.

Korunks · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2011, 03:09:20 PM »

P&UB is not a triggered ability, it has been ruled a Gained ability. I will go find the threads.

here it is. I hate the ruling but a ruling it is.

STAMP · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2011, 04:56:25 PM »

The Asahel/P&UB combo really depends on two things:

1. Whether the PTB decide that some set-aside abilities are gained and some are triggered, and,

2. How the PTB decide the order of triggered abilities that depend on "hero enters battle" versus "hero starts a battle".

OPTION A
IMO, set-aside abilities need to be separated into gained and triggered. I think both should be CBN. If the PTB go that route then #2 does not impact this combo. It would work just like prophet+HT.

OPTION B
But if they decide that all set-aside abilities are gained by the hero, whether triggered or not, then #2 has a huge impact.

If "hero enters battle" versus "hero starts a battle" are considered the same type of trigger in that you activate the trigger once the hero's SA is complete, then you get a catch-22: the gained trigger tries to fire but waits until the hero's SA completes which can't because it's waiting for the gained trigger to fire, and so on...
If the triggers are tripped at different times, i.e. "hero enters battle" trips as soon as a hero is placed in battle and "hero starts a battle" trips as soon as abilities complete, then there is no catch-22 but the combo no longer works as the CTB ability goes last.

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Author Topic: The Woman at the Well + Passover and Unleavend Bread (Read 1440 times)

RTSmaniac

The Woman at the Well + Passover and Unleavend Bread

Mr.Hiatus

Re: The Woman at the Well + Passover and Unleavend Bread

RTSmaniac

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Isildur

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Bryon

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STAMP

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Rawrlolsauce!

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Lamborghini_diablo

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crustpope

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Korunks

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crustpope

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Lamborghini_diablo

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Korunks

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STAMP

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