Author Topic: Darius Decree (Read 30673 times)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #50 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:42:40 AM »

I'm pretty sure Lambo's comment wasn't at you.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #51 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:46:34 AM »

Well, I kinda wrote out my ideas on the spot, so of course that wouldn't be the end-all version.

Putting something in the discard pile is always discarding... which is its own ability/action.

Quote from: The Schaef on February 12, 2010, 11:40:19 AM

I also take exception to your claim that I'm doing anything here "rather than" the rules of Redemption. My appeal to broader definitions speaks only to conventions that players expect to remain consistent. I will not argue that discarding is "playing" and activating is "discarding" just because we can make rules that would call it that. Convention is a key component in making a game accessible.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I never meant my last comment to be directed at you. I was refering to when Bryon was talking about common card terms, such as how a piece of cardstock is referred to as a card.

Quote

That said, I am still defining place and play firmly within the context of these rules and these rules only. I simply think that it's easy enough for everyone to understand and distinguish if "placing" is putting a card somewhere and "playing" is actively using the card in some way, either by activation or by putting it "in play" where it can be the target of most effects.

Yeah, and I totally agree with something like this, where the two can be similar, but there is a line drawn between the two. Some times both can happen together... Tclass enhs for example. First it would be played by game rule, and then its ability activates, which allows it to be placed (provided it has a place ability)

STAMP · « **Reply #52 on:** February 12, 2010, 12:16:53 PM »

Let's ALL playce our differences aside for a moment.

Place can be a subset of play and it can also be a separate entity unto itself. (see negate/interrupt/prevent)

This can also be confusing to explain to younger ones. (see negate/interrupt/prevent)

Finally, I do agree with both what Bryon and Schaef are describing but there really needs to be a point where their arguments conjoin. (see negat...)

Bryon · « **Reply #53 on:** February 12, 2010, 12:18:50 PM »

Any time you put a card from hand onto the table (other than discard pile), you are playing it.

If you PLACE a character in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.
As the character enters battle, its special ability activates. But the card was already played in a prior phase.

If you PLACE a weapon in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.
As the weapon enters battle, its special ability activates. But the card was already played in a prior phase. If the weapon was placed, and then later DD was activated, then DD does nothing to the weapon as it enters battle. Why not? Because it is not being "played" at that moment. It was already played when it was placed on a previous turn.

If you PLACE an enhancement in Storehouse, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.

If you simply PLAY a territory class enhancement (that does not contain a place ability), then it is NOT placed. Its special ability DOES activate. Since it was NOT placed, then it does NOT stick around after that phase.

So, place and play are different, but not mutually exclusive. There is a lot of overlap. You can simultaneously play and place a card, just as you can simultaneously capture a hero and remove it from battle. Being captured and "losing by removal" have a lot of overlap, though it is possible to do either without doing the other.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #54 on:** February 12, 2010, 12:24:09 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2010, 12:16:53 PM

Let's ALL playce our differences aside for a moment.

You totally just stole my joke:

Quote

redemption1414 (11:36:47 AM): I can't make any fun half words. Well Phooey
lambodiablov (11:37:29 AM): playce
lambodiablov (11:37:44 AM): imma start using that term now
redemption1414 (11:37:55 AM): Eh, doesn't have the same weird sound I shoot for. But it works.
lambodiablov (11:38:02 AM): I COPYRIGHT IT... 25 cents anytime its used

I'll take my $0.25 now.

*edit*

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 12:18:50 PM

If you PLACE a weapon in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.
As the weapon enters battle, its special ability activates. But the card was already played in a prior phase. If the weapon was placed, and then later DD was activated, then DD does nothing to the weapon as it enters battle. Why not? Because it is not being "played" at that moment. It was already played when it was placed on a previous turn.

Wait wait wait wait a second... I've had it ruled that Proud Pharisee cannot play the next enhancement if a character with a weapon on him entered battle first, because the weapon was considered to have been played. I am not totally sure on this, but I belive Maly was the one who told me that.

STAMP · « **Reply #55 on:** February 12, 2010, 12:29:23 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 12, 2010, 12:24:09 PM

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2010, 12:16:53 PM
Let's ALL playce our differences aside for a moment.

You totally just stole my joke:

Quote
redemption1414 (11:36:47 AM): I can't make any fun half words. Well Phooey
lambodiablov (11:37:29 AM): playce
lambodiablov (11:37:44 AM): imma start using that term now
redemption1414 (11:37:55 AM): Eh, doesn't have the same weird sound I shoot for. But it works.
lambodiablov (11:38:02 AM): I COPYRIGHT IT... 25 cents anytime its used

I'll take my $0.25 now.

*edit*

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 12:18:50 PM
If you PLACE a weapon in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.
As the weapon enters battle, its special ability activates. But the card was already played in a prior phase. If the weapon was placed, and then later DD was activated, then DD does nothing to the weapon as it enters battle. Why not? Because it is not being "played" at that moment. It was already played when it was placed on a previous turn.

Wait wait wait wait a second... I've had it ruled that Proud Pharisee cannot play the next enhancement if a character with a weapon on him entered battle first, because the weapon was considered to have been played.

Tell you what. I'll playce 4 bits in an email and send it to you.

The Schaef · « **Reply #56 on:** February 12, 2010, 12:45:46 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 12, 2010, 11:46:34 AM

Putting something in the discard pile is always discarding... which is its own ability/action.

I don't disagree that it's distinct from removing always removing and shuffling always shuffling. I just think that you can "place" a card anywhere, and certain placements have names.

Quote

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I never meant my last comment to be directed at you. I was refering to when Bryon was talking about common card terms, such as how a piece of cardstock is referred to as a card.

When I see the term "you all" I just cover my own bases and let whoever else "you all" might mean fend for themselves. If it was me, not me, whoever, whatever, doesn't matter, just gives me an opportunity to clarify.

Quote

Yeah, and I totally agree with something like this, where the two can be similar, but there is a line drawn between the two. Some times both can happen together... Tclass enhs for example. First it would be played by game rule, and then its ability activates, which allows it to be placed (provided it has a place ability)

I think there is about 98% agreement between the various schools of thought on this, and it just boils down to what explanations work the best and have the fewest weird cases.

Lastly, to Stamp, the principal reason I've chosen this line of thought is that it makes it incredibly simple to understand and can be very clearly delineated by the rules. Placing a card is just putting it somewhere. Playing a card is putting it "in play" and/or activating it (in many cases, those two happen together anyway).

The Schaef · « **Reply #57 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:15:36 PM »

Double-post:

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 12:18:50 PM

Any time you put a card from hand onto the table (other than discard pile), you are playing it.

But why other than discard pile. More importantly, why ONLY discard pile? And why are we now back to only hand? I question again why this level of complication even needs to exist. It seems that by this definition, Unknown Nation does not play an Evil Character.

Quote

If you PLACE a character in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate.

That does not disagree with my definition.

Quote

If you PLACE a weapon in territory, it is played, but its special ability does not activate...If the weapon was placed, and then later DD was activated, then DD does nothing to the weapon as it enters battle.

That does not disagree with my definition.

Quote

If you PLACE an enhancement in Storehouse, it is played, but its special ability does not activate. Since it is placed, it sticks around after that phase.

It is placed because of the special ability ON Storehouse. It does not make sense why this is considered playing a card. I do not draw equivalency between playing a card into Storehouse and playing a card in battle or playing a TC card in territory.

Quote

If you simply PLAY a territory class enhancement (that does not contain a place ability), then it is NOT placed. Its special ability DOES activate. Since it was NOT placed, then it does NOT stick around after that phase.

The card is PLACED on the character on which it is activated, just like when you place a character or Enhancement into the Field of Battle (therefore typically "playing" those as well). But the rules then say to PLACE the card in the discard pile, where it DOES stay, unless the special ability directs otherwise.

Quote

So, place and play are different, but not mutually exclusive. There is a lot of overlap.

Nobody argued they were mutually exclusive. I don't know why that's even being brought into the conversation. But you still do not make a convincing argument on why these terms are differentiated in your mind, beyond saying "play" has to come from hand and cannot go to discard (but not why). Most importantly, you do not give an example of placing a card without playing a card, only the inverse.

Every card that is "placed" stays where it is "placed" every time. But the RULES governing the use of Enhancements played in battle, is that any which remain in the Field of Battle at the end are then PLACED in the discard pile. Just as I described with TC Enhancements above.

I think this approach is indicative of taking the special ability "place", which is supposed to override normal rules of play when applied, and mapping it backwards onto the general game definition of "placing" cards. It should be the other way round, the special ability should extend the game rule into an area where it would not normally function.

STAMP · « **Reply #58 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:25:25 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on February 12, 2010, 12:45:46 PM

Lastly, to Stamp, the principal reason I've chosen this line of thought is that it makes it incredibly simple to understand and can be very clearly delineated by the rules. Placing a card is just putting it somewhere. Playing a card is putting it "in play" and/or activating it (in many cases, those two happen together anyway).

I'm not disagreeing with your logic or the fact it is derived from the current ruleset. It makes sense. What Bryon is saying also makes sense. It depends on the perspective. To use an analogy, consider the past debates on "cannot be prevented". Both the "cannot be prevented means cannot be prevented" and the "cannot be prevented means protecting against being stopped before" arguments actually make sense based on the perspective in which you look at them.

TimMierz · « **Reply #59 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:35:08 PM »

Recognizing that multiple points of view are valid? On the Internet?! I thought you'd know better.

The Schaef · « **Reply #60 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:37:37 PM »

As I told Lambo, the various ideas coincide about 98% of the time, in terms of whether or not they "work" with the cards. So to find the differentiation and determine what works best, we must look at the reasons why they must be defined one way and not the other, and which makes the most sense among the 2% disagreement between them.

STAMP · « **Reply #61 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:40:28 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on February 12, 2010, 01:35:08 PM

Recognizing that multiple points of view are valid? On the Internet?! I thought you'd know better.

Sorry. I studied Modern Physics in college (which now that I think about it, it's no longer "modern"). I'm an Einstein follower.

Quote from: The Schaef on February 12, 2010, 01:37:37 PM

As I told Lambo, the various ideas coincide about 98% of the time, in terms of whether or not they "work" with the cards. So to find the differentiation and determine what works best, we must look at the reasons why they must be defined one way and not the other, and which makes the most sense among the 2% disagreement between them.

I concur.

Bryon · « **Reply #62 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:41:37 PM »

STAMP, that is true. I just prefer to look at it from my perspective.

When a card goes from hand to discard pile, that is called discarding, not playing. Discarding a card and playing a card ARE mutually exclusive. Placing a card and playing a card are NOT mutually exclusive.

If you place a character or enhancement into your territory, that is playing it.

This is true of characters placed from hand into territory, weapons placed from hand onto characters, characters placed from hand onto fortresses, and enhancements placed from hand onto fortresses. In all those cases, the card is going from hand into the field of play.

I can understand the head scratching when it comes to "playing" a card to an area that is NOT in play, but there are cards that do that ("Plays to set aide area."). And you still "play" an artifact when you place it face down in your artifact pile. If there were a card that said "Opponent cannot play artifacts, sites, or characters next turn," that would keep your opponent from placing any one of those into his territory - even face down. Right?

STAMP · « **Reply #63 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:44:35 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 01:41:37 PM

STAMP, that is true. I just prefer to look at it from my perspective.

When a card goes from hand to discard pile, that is called discarding, not playing. Discarding a card and playing a card ARE mutually exclusive. Placing a card and playing a card are NOT mutually exclusive.

If you place a character or enhancement into your territory, that is playing it.

This is true of characters placed from hand into territory, weapons placed from hand onto characters, characters placed from hand onto fortresses, and enhancements placed from hand onto fortresses. In all those cases, the card is going from hand into the field of play.

I can understand the head scratching when it comes to "playing" a card to an area that is NOT in play, but there are cards that do that ("Plays to set aide area."). And you still "play" an artifact when you place it face down in your artifact pile. If there were a card that said "Opponent cannot play artifacts, sites, or characters next turn," that would keep your opponent from placing any one of those into his territory - even face down. Right?

{stands next to Bryon} I concur.

The Schaef · « **Reply #64 on:** February 12, 2010, 01:55:40 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 01:41:37 PM

Discarding a card and playing a card ARE mutually exclusive. Placing a card and playing a card are NOT mutually exclusive.

But you haven't explained what makes them different. And for the second time, no one ever said they were mutually exclusive, and I can think of no reason anyone would even approach you with that. Why does this keep coming up?

Quote

This is true of characters placed from hand into territory, weapons placed from hand onto characters, characters placed from hand onto fortresses, and enhancements placed from hand onto fortresses. In all those cases, the card is going from hand into the field of play.

All of those are put into the field of play by game rule. Which is why my definition works.

Quote

And you still "play" an artifact when you place it face down in your artifact pile.

I don't agree with this and I don't see why putting a card in a stack is considered to be "playing a card". It's not an intuitive use of the term.

This is why you have not explained what MAKES placement and play different. Why MUST this be considered a "play" and not just a "place"? Only because it was not discarded?

Nor have I seen any examples of where your definition "places" a card without "playing" the card. If the two are different, then they should each have a function that the other does not.

I have managed to find some on my own, though. Unknown Nation places an Evil Charcter from draw pile into battle, but because it did not come from my hand, I'm not playing an Evil Character. Transfiguration places Moses from discard pile into battle, but because it did not come from my hand, I'm not playing the Hero. Also counter-intuitive.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #65 on:** February 12, 2010, 02:11:17 PM »

I'd say its a lot less the 98%...

I do not think putting Characters in your territory is "placing"

To avoid confusion, I'll go ahead and split the two into lists and show what I think each one is.

---------------Play---------------

*Putting Characters into your territory from hand by game rules.
*Putting enhancements into battle due to rules of initative OR an ability that specifies "play". In some cases, "Add to battle" is a play ability if it adds an enhancement into battle.
*Using a territory class enhancement, warrior class enhancement, or healing enhancement outside of battle by game rules. In regards to WC enhs, they are not placed because there is a game rule that allows them to stick. You cannot negate a WC characters ability to hold WC enhancements.
*Putting fortresses and sites down into your territory.

The general rule of thumb to classify something as having been played is that it was put onto the table due to a game rule, or a specific ability that specifies to Play or Add to Battle (only when AtB specifies an enhancement)

---------------Place---------------

*Placing cards onto fortresses, such as heroes and enhancements.
*Placing cards onto other characters. Examples are Destructive Sin, PG Panic Demon, and Elishana
*Placing cards into territories or other areas of the table. Examples are Abom, GoyS, and Glory of the Lord.
*The only case where Placement happens without an ability is Lost Souls and sites.

General rule of thumb to classify something as having been placed is that it must be done by the special ability of a card. I do not see place as a game rule, but rather as an ability. The rules may state that in the prep phase you can place cards on forts or w/e, but I see that as simply a clarification of WHEN you can use those special abilities when they are not specified.

So, as said, I see the two as being 100% seperate terms, not a subset of eachother. This is not in the REG or anything, but this is how I feel it should work.

Bryon · « **Reply #66 on:** February 12, 2010, 02:17:37 PM »

So, Lambo, "holds" is a "may place" special ability again?

Quote

Quote
Discarding a card and playing a card ARE mutually exclusive. Placing a card and playing a card are NOT mutually exclusive.
But you haven't explained what makes them different.

I was trying to explain the differences between place and play and discard... That place and play could overlap, while discard and play could not. I am sorry that wasn't clear.

Panic Demon (pale green) places itself on a hero. Panic Demon is not played at that moment, because it was already played.

Lots of enhancements are played first, then (perhaps under certain circumstances), their special abilities allow them to be placed somewhere. Leprosy does this, too, right? If the special ability is negated, then the play still happens even when the place does not. In the case of Leprosy, it is placed on a second hero, but it isn't played at that time. It was played in battle on a previous turn.

The answer to "Why MUST this be considered PLAY, rather than only a place" comes down to one thing for me: a card can't hit the table from hand without being either played or discarded. How can a card activate its ability if it wasn't played at some point?

I place a weapon onto my warrior. It is considered played at that point. At some point in the future, I can use it in a way that it will activate.
I place an artifact into my pile. It is considered played at that point. At some point in the future, I can use it in a way that it will activate.
Otherwise, I go from placing an artifact to activating it, and it was never played? How do you play cards if you don't play the cards? At some point, the artifact was played. If placing a weapon or character into territory is considered playing it (even though the special ability is not activated at that time), then it seems to me that placing an artifact into your territory is considered playing it (even though the special ability is not activated at that time).

If putting a card into your territory without its special ability activating (see heroes, weapons, ECs, artifacts, multi-color sites), can still count as playing it, then placing a card from hand onto fortress still counts as playing it, too.

The Schaef · « **Reply #67 on:** February 12, 2010, 02:19:04 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 12, 2010, 02:11:17 PM

I do not think putting Characters in your territory is "placing"

Why? That's what the rules call it.

Quote

*The only case where Placement happens without an ability is Lost Souls and sites.

And Forts. And your Artifact pile.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #68 on:** February 12, 2010, 02:29:20 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 02:17:37 PM

So, Lambo, "holds" is a "may place" special ability again?

LOL. If its not written on the card (such as ZT) then I still think its not an ability.

Almost every other fort that holds cards does say "place" on it.

Another thing...

How is Elishana a play ability? The enhancement he places doesnt even go into your hand. He places enhancements directly from the discard pile.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #69 on:** February 12, 2010, 04:31:52 PM »

If I'm understanding the argument at this point, we have:

Bryon is saying that cards must be considered "played" when they hit the table so that you can use them then (ie. face-up artifacts) or later (ie. face-down artifacts).

Schaef is saying that cards are only being "placed" when they hit the table, and that they are "played" when they enter "play". Therefore, putting down a face-down art would be "placing" it, but it wouldn't be "played" until you turned it face-up and "activated" it.

Are there any current rulings that would contradict either of these perspectives, or are they equally valid?

The Schaef · « **Reply #70 on:** February 12, 2010, 04:53:21 PM »

Mark,

Any ability that says "search for a card and play it" does not work under Bryon's definition, which I should also note that you have slightly misstated by leaving out the "only from your hand" restriction.

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 02:17:37 PM

Panic Demon (pale green) places itself on a hero. Panic Demon is not played at that moment, because it was already played.

That is an additional "place" special ability after the card has already entered play. You still placed the Panic Demon into battle in order to play it in the first place. Activation of the special ability fits my definition. If the two are different, tell me how I can place a card without playing a card.

Quote

How can a card activate its ability if it wasn't played at some point?

This fits my definition of activation being one of the two basic ways to play a card. It does not match your definition which includes putting a card anywhere, regardless of activation.

Quote

Otherwise, I go from placing an artifact to activating it, and it was never played?

Activating the Artifact is playing it.

Quote

If putting a card into your territory without its special ability activating (see heroes, weapons, ECs, artifacts, multi-color sites), can still count as playing it, then placing a card from hand onto fortress still counts as playing it, too.

This is an erroneous characterization of my argument, because I specifically said that placing Artifacts face-down does not constitute a play, because they are not in play and not active, while putting down an active Artifact is activating it, therefore fulfilling one of my criteria. There is no way to play an Artifact that contradicts my definitions. Additionally, I consider Sites to activate when played but multi-color Sites only have their effect when in battle. So this does not contradict my definition either. Even if you want to throw that out, the Site is placed in play by game rule and therefore fits my definition anyway.

I have outlined the exact reason why placing a card should not count as playing it. You have not shown me where that reasoning would not work. And by saying it does, you only lend weight to the idea that play and place are almost completely interchangeable.

STAMP · « **Reply #71 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:03:01 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on February 12, 2010, 04:53:21 PM

Mark,

Any ability that says "search for a card and play it" does not work under Bryon's definition, which I should also note that you have slightly misstated by leaving out the "only from your hand" restriction.

I think for Bryon's interpretation to work we have to entertain a previous debate about whether cards that are searched for actually "pass through" the hand. I did not have an opinion on that one way or another, but I do remember reading a thread about it.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #72 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:20:05 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 12, 2010, 02:17:37 PM

The answer to "Why MUST this be considered PLAY, rather than only a place" comes down to one thing for me: a card can't hit the table from hand without being either played or discarded. How can a card activate its ability if it wasn't played at some point?

Sure it can, lets see how many ways I can think of:

Convincing Miracle: Search discard pile for a N.T. human Hero and place it in territory. Convert a human Evil Character to a white brigade Hero. Cannot be negated if opponent has less than ten cards in deck.

Pleading for the City: Set aside a Hero for one turn. On return, you may search deck for up to 2 silver Heroes and put them in hand, and search opponent's discard pile for all Lost Souls and place in his territory.

Drawn Out: Take an O.T. male human Hero from deck, discard pile, or hand and put it in territory. Place this card on that Hero. Protect that Hero from evil discard abilities.

Valley of Dry Bones: Return all Heroes from all discard piles to the Field of Play.

Eliashib the High Priest: You may search draw pile or discard pile for Wall of Protection or Jerusalem Tower and put it in play.

Elishana the Priest: If Jehoshaphat is in play, you may place an O.T. Enhancement from hand or discard pile on a human Hero of matching brigade in territory. The next time that Hero enters battle that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately.

Pagan Priest: You may discard two cards from hand to search discard pile for an Artifact depicting an idol or evil alter and activate it. Previous Artifact is negated.

Seven Sons of Sceva: Negate and discard Three Nails. You may exchange this Evil Character with an orange brigade demon in discard pile. Cannot be prevented by a good card.

Unknown Nation: If opponent's Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to search draw pile for a human Evil Character and add it to battle.

And the strongest example.... Gates of Hell: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add your demon to the battle.

All of those bypass cards going into play from your hand, so technically none of those were played. I skipped over ones that were similar to some I listed, but there are plenty that do this.

The Schaef · « **Reply #73 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:38:17 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2010, 05:03:01 PM

I think for Bryon's interpretation to work we have to entertain a previous debate about whether cards that are searched for actually "pass through" the hand. I did not have an opinion on that one way or another, but I do remember reading a thread about it.

But then tons of definitions in the REG, new or old, get busted. Without getting into anything regarding the new document or paired abilities or what not, the fact remains that when a search card tells you to do something, that gets done, else it goes to hand.

Besides, a "pass-through" has no function other than to create a wedge for a square peg.

Whereas if place is just putting a card somewhere, and playing is just activating or putting into the Field of Play by game rule, everything works: the terms have overlap but are clearly distinguished, there's no pass-through, there's no confusion about face-down cards or cards placed by special ability or where the card is "played from", there's no fiddling with the rules for special abilities, it "just works", and is explained in less than 25 words with no ambiguity.

Bryon · « **Reply #74 on:** February 12, 2010, 06:07:31 PM »

Thank you for all those examples. In all of those cases, the card was played. That just furthers my point. The card HAS to be played to be able to activate its ability at that point or in the future. It can't just be placed and then activated later. There has to be a "played" point for every card before or as the special ability on the card activates.

I guess I have not been thorough enough in my posts. I never said that you can't play a card from a discard pile or a deck. I just said that putting a card onto the table from your hand counts as playing the card. But that is not the ONLY way to play a card. Playing a card from a discard pile or a deck is still playing a card, too.

Whether or not the special ability of a card activates as the card hits the table makes ZERO difference in determining whether a card is considered "played." If I put a character or weapon or multi-colored site into my territory, its special ability does not activate. But it was still played. If I put a demon into territory via Gates of Hell, its ability does not activate, but it is still considered played. None of these actions activates the special ability on the played card, but they are still played. So a lack of special ability activation has no bearing on whether a card is considered played.

Characters are played once. Their special abilities activate as many times as they enter battle.

Weapons are played once. Their special abilities activate as many times as they enter battle.

Multi-colored sites are played once. Their special abilities activate as many times as they enter battle.

Artifacts are played once. Their special abilities activate as many times as they are activated.

If a character (with or without weapon) or site was set aside, returning from the set aside area is not considered "playing" the character, weapon, or site. It was already played when it hit the table from your hand (or deck or discard pile. I'll be thorough).

If an artifact was face down, then turning it face up is not considered "playing" the artifact. It was already played when it hit the table from your hand (or deck or discard pile.)

Activating an artifact that was already in your artifact pile is not "playing" an artifact, just like returning a hero from my set aside area to my territory is not "playing" the hero.

If the card goes from hand to table, it is considered played.
If the card goes from deck to table, it is considered played.
If the card goes from discard pile to table, it is considered played.

A card that enters play from another "out of play" location (set aside area, face down, etc.) must already have been played at an earlier time.

What problems does this cause? I can think of none.

News:

Author Topic: Darius Decree (Read 30673 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef