Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Can I place an Enhancement using Agur with Darius' Decree active? That is, is "place" a subset of "play"?

Darius' Decree
Type:  Artifact • Brigade:  None • Ability:  None • Class:  None • Special Ability: Opponents may not play good Enhancements from hand, unless an Evil Character is in battle. You may discard this card to discard all Heroes in set-aside areas. • Identifiers:  None • Verse:  Daniel 6:9 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Agur
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may place an O.T. Enhancement from hand (or discard pile if Book of the Law is active) on a human Hero of matching brigade in your territory. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Proverbs 30:1 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)

Seems that placing is a good way to get around this. You are not playing them from hand, you are placing them. Then, when they enter battle, they are not coming from hand so DD doesn't even try to do anything.

While Daruis Decree is active, you MAY NOT place a good enhancement from your hand on someone unless an evil character is in battle.

Kevin Shride

Facedown artifacts, heros into territory, etc.

If taking a card from your hand and putting it into play isn't "playing" it, what would you call it?

Kevin Shride

Although my understanding of "played" vs "placed" led me to believe they were different in regards to Darius' Decree, this portion of the REG seems to support Kevin's ruling.  

Add to the fact that I'm rarely right when I disagree with Kevin on a ruling - because he's pretty well versed on how these things work.

A weapon-class enhancement can be played in either of these ways:

•      Played during battle as a regular enhancement and used by any character of matching brigade following the regular rules of initiative, OR

•      Placed on a warrior-class character of matching brigade during the Preparation Phase or Discard Phase.

The rulebook describes one of the ways that weapon class Enhancements can be played is to place them on a character.

You can still use Agur and friends to place an enhancement from the discard pile since that doesn't come from hand.

So if I use Ambush, am I playing a place card, even though it isn't going into play?  Face down cards are not in play.

That doesn't make any sense....

The use of "Play" on Darius Decree is a game rule. The reference to "place" on Agur is a special ability, not a game rule. You really have to keep them separate. Play may sometimes be interpretted as place in a game rule context (like placing an enhancement on a character in battle through the game rule), but that is not the same as placing a card outside of a game rule via a special ability. I hope this gets cleared up in the coming weeks - I know it has come up regularly of late.

In this particular case, you can "place" the card via Agur on a character in a territory during battle because you are not "playing" the card via a game rule. What you cannot do is place (or play) a card on Agur during the battle (e.g., A New Creation) to convert the evil character to red - doing so is by a game rule that Darius Decree prevents.

Mike

from the rulebook: "You and your opponent play enhancements on your own characters according to the rules for initiative until the player who is losing either cannot play or chooses not to play any more enhancements. In mutual destruction or stalemate situa­tions, players must either play an enhancement or pass. If there are three consecutive passes (i.e. you pass, opponent passes, you pass again), then resolve the battle."

In this particular case, you can "place" the card via Agur on a character in a territory during battle because you are not "playing" the card via a game rule. What you cannot do is place (or play) a card on Agur during the battle (e.g., A New Creation) to convert the evil character to red - doing so is by a game rule that Darius Decree prevents.

Mike

That's cool. I'm not sure what you meant by the bolded part, as DD doesn't prevent Agur from playing enhancements when there is an EC in battle, but all the same, I do like this ruling. I think it may encourage more use of the enhancement placers, since DD is bound to be a popular card with all the Jacob's, ET's, Hidden Treasures, and Set-Asides around nowadays.

Another reason I thought of why "placing" should not be "playing" is that if it were, DD would prevent you from putting good enhancements in Storehouse. And that seems wrong.

Although the point that Gabe brought up seems valid, and I was about to agree with him for consistency's sake, until I decided I liked Mike's ruling better. 

What about weapon class enhancments?

They can't be played outside of battle now either right, atleast for heroes?

Cool.... Next we'll be saying that you can use territory class and set-asides outside of battle even with DD up.... Why did we make this card again? Oh, I guess it does stop Hidden treasures.....

We obviously made it because so many people complained about pre-block ignore. 

Right, because we didn't already have a good dozen or so answers to them.... It also does nothing against TGT

OOh... good point. We must have missed that. It was supposed to say "negate the garden tomb if a hero is set-aside." Oh well...

As an avid user of placement heroes, I don't think they are "playing" cards, especially not if you take the card from the discard pile.

Long Live Elishana!