Author Topic: Darius Decree (Read 30665 times)

sepjazzwarrior · « **on:** February 11, 2010, 08:54:07 AM »

sorry if this had been asked before, but i can't find a post pertaining exactly to this. Does DD stop your opponent from
1)putting weapon-class enhancements on characters in territory
2) placing enhancements in characters in territory
2) putting ehancements in storehouse

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2010, 09:23:06 AM »

1)Yes. I am playing a WC enh on a hero. - Not 100% sure
2)No. - Placing =/= Playing
3)No - Same Logic.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2010, 09:32:04 AM »

Can you be more specific with #2? Give an example.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2010, 10:00:36 AM »

like using augr to place an enhancement on a character

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2010, 10:16:13 AM »

Ok, I'd say no as well, because it's not immediately activating.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2010, 10:51:09 AM »

This brings up the very good question of what is "playing" a card compared to "placing" a card or "activating" a card or "triggering" a card. I don't know that this is all very well defined, and I look forward to seeing how this thread works out.

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:00:37 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 11, 2010, 10:16:13 AM

Ok, I'd say no as well, because it's not immediately activating.

But you could use this argument to say that you're allowed to "place" WC enhancements on characters because they "aren't activating."

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:06:10 AM »

I say that playing = putting a card from hand into play simply via game rule, or if an ability says to play a card.

Placing is different, because there is no way to place without using a place ability. You may go "But what about Tclass enhs!" My Answer, you still need to PLAY those in order for their place ability to activate.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:12:28 AM »

why does WC enhancments get so many special treatments compared to other cards? they must have a special place in someones heart...

I think DD should stop WC enhancments like it stops territory class enhancments b/c:
1.) its cool thet there is something that buffers WC enhancments
2.) b/c DD is just that strong

i would consider putting a wc enhancment is actually letting you play it b/c of the WC symbol and storehouse's ability is letting you play enhacments into it but to counter that argument is that thier not getting played b/c thier ability is not activating so if they were played wouldn't thier ability activate?

so maybe a played card is when a special ability of a card activates compared to placing where the special ability does not activate so DD only stops SA from activating...

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:46:26 AM »

i would agree that playing=SA activating, placing=no SA activating. That would amke sense with storehouse because you don't play enhancements into storehouse, you place them, and the SA on those enhancements don't activate

SirNobody · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:52:57 AM »

Hey,

A enhancement card is played when (a) it enters the field of play, or (b) it's ability is activated.

Thus Darius' Decree stops all three things mentioned in the original post of this thread.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:57:46 AM »

Wow, DD is so much more powerful than I originally thought...AMAZING!!!

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2010, 12:08:08 PM »

i dont agree with dd stopping a player from placing enhancements in storehouse, as they're not being played.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2010, 01:46:48 PM »

i agree. I place cards into sh.

SirNobody · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:09:50 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 11, 2010, 01:46:48 PM

i agree. I place cards into sh.

Stronghold in the Desert: "While occupied, each time an opponent plays an Evil Character of a brigade he does not already have in play, discard the top card of his deck."

According to the rulebook I place evil characters in my territory. So are you saying that Stronghold in the Desert isn't triggered by that? So it can only works if I block with an evil character from hand?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:26:08 PM »

I feel that the difference is... When you play a card, it is almost ALWAYS done without the help of a special ability. You play characters into your territory from hand without abilities, play cards in battle due to initative rules, even play healing enhancements due to the rules. The only ability that lets you "play" a card is one that SAYS "play", such as ET.

Storehouse is an ability that lets you place the cards on it. I don't see how the two are the same. Play = putting a card into play from hand by game rule or a "play" ability. Place = done entirely by special ability. You cannot place a card WITHOUT a special ability.

So, I see Play as more of a game rule, with a few abilities that allow you to use that rule out of normal bounds, while Place is done entirely by special ability, and only involves the placement of a card into an area it normally is not allowed (such as into a territory or into a fortress)

I have no REG quotes to back me up, but I stand by this idea.

SirNobody · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:34:02 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 11, 2010, 02:26:08 PM

You cannot place a card WITHOUT a special ability.

Apparently you haven't read your rulebook recently enough

Quote

3. Preparation Phase – You may perform any number of these actions in any order. Actions may be repeated unless a limit is stipulated:
a) Place a character (cross or dragon icon) into your territory.
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile.
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn).
d) Place a site into your territory.
e) Place a Lost Soul into a site.
f) Set aside a character.
g) Return a character from your set-aside area and place[/b] it back into your territory.
h) Place a weapon-class enhancement on a warrior-class character in your territory.
i) Place a fortress on the table as described on the fortress. At this time its special ability becomes active.
j) Place or remove a card in a fortress as described on the fortress.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:37:46 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on February 11, 2010, 02:34:02 PM

j) Place or remove a card in a fortress as described on the fortress.

So, why do you say that DD stops storehouse? Perhaps we both need to read our rulebooks some more?

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2010, 03:50:51 PM »

He's arguing that they all say place, even though we know that they are being played. (ie Stronghold in the Desert example)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2010, 04:16:40 PM »

If thats the case though, why did he even bring it up then? If All those should be changed to "play," then what good is the rulebook if its not even accurate?

Is that quote word for word accurate, or can I start switching words in other parts of the rules as well? See where I'm going with this? You start flipping words around, and then it just becomes a big mess, with rules that don't even work anymore.

So, Until something changes, I will use that quote as proof that DD does NOT stop weapons and placing enhancements into storehouse. Otherwise Im going to maybe switch Discard for Redeem on my Burial cards...

Master KChief · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2010, 04:57:06 PM »

yeah, dd stopping enhancements from going into sh just doesnt stick well. 'play' can mean entirely different things for different types of cards. 'play' for enhancements has pretty much always exclusively meant by activating its ability.

Bryon · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2010, 05:40:21 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on February 11, 2010, 11:52:57 AM

A enhancement card is played when (a) it enters the field of play, or (b) it's ability is activated.

Thus Darius' Decree stops all three things mentioned in the original post of this thread.

Agreed. When you take a card from your hand and put it in play, that is called "playing" the card. If the card is going to stick around after the phase in which it is played, then it is ALSO called "placing" the card.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2010, 05:54:23 PM »

So, can I use Cannot be Removed to protect from discard too?

Discarding takes them out of play, which could be considered removing from the field of play, so doesn't discard = remove?

I reeeeeeeeally do not like the idea of using BOTH terms for something such as this. Can we keep it to ONE term per action?

Now, as for the current ruling at hand, what is there in the current rulebook/REG that says putting a card into a fort is playing? The only thing I have seen is it stating that it is PLACED in there... which would mean it bypasses DD.

Bryon · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:08:28 PM »

Some basic knowledge of card games is assumed here. A booster pack of Redemption contains pieces of cardstock cut into pieces called "cards." These are arranged in a pile face down called a deck. To draw a card is to take the top card of deck into your hand. The cards in your hand are called your hand. When you take a card from your hand and put it into the discard pile, that is card discarding the card. When you take a card from your hand and put it down into a place other than the discard pile or deck, that is called playing it.

These are consistent across almost every card game I've ever played.

Your question about "Cannot be removed" has me scratching my head. Do you mean "Cannot be removed from the game"? That is totally different from discard.

If you mean "Cannot be removed from battle" then yes, that would also protect from discard.

In the rules, you will see a section about "losing by removal." That refers to removal from battle. This includes discard, capture, shuffle, removal from the game, conversion, return to hand, return to territory, withdraw, return to deck, etc. So, yes, "cannot be removed from battle" would protect from discard as well. So...

A character that is being captured from battle is also losing by removal. Both terms apply.

A Beast is also a Demon. Both terms apply. Beasts are a subset of Demons.

A Giant is also a human. Both terms apply. Giants are a subset of humans.

Place from hand is also play. Both terms apply. Place from hand is a subset of play.

Master KChief · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:42:35 PM »

too much twisted terminology. 'playing' enhancements has always meant activating its ability, which is why placed enhancements like tc enhancements worked...you placed them, then activated their abilities. i dont think placed enhancements that do not activate does not qualify as a played enhancement.

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Author Topic: Darius Decree (Read 30665 times)

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