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During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

Well, since only one deity actually exists, even that definition clearly distinguishes the acts of Moses and the acts of his detractors.

During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

Actually, at that time period, Jewish culture believed that YHVH was simply the most powerful God.

I do not consider a college student to be an authority on exactly what the people of ancient Israel believed.  Particularly a college student who doesn't even accept the accuracy of the Bible, which contains the belief system of that time period.

When God says to have "no other gods before me" He is saying that we shouldn't treat anything as a higher priority or authority than God.  Just because people treat something as a god in their life, does not mean that thing is a God in reality.

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 09:25:53 AM

During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 10:14:06 AM

Actually, at that time period, Jewish culture believed that YHVH was simply the most powerful God.

I do not consider a college student to be an authority on exactly what the people of ancient Israel believed.  Particularly a college student who doesn't even accept the accuracy of the Bible, which contains the belief system of that time period.

When God says to have "no other gods before me" He is saying that we shouldn't treat anything as a higher priority or authority than God.  Just because people treat something as a god in their life, does not mean that thing is a God in reality.

Quote from: The Schaef on August 21, 2009, 10:10:12 AM

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 09:25:53 AM

During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

Well, since only one deity actually exists, even that definition clearly distinguishes the acts of Moses and the acts of his detractors.

Actually, at that time period, Jewish culture believed that YHVH was simply the most powerful God. They did not deny the existence of other gods until sometime later. The commandment "have no other gods before me" presupposes the existence of other gods, as does the context of many pre-exilic verses. Later on, these gods were redefined to be "demons" or "fallen angel", depending on a Jew's particular theological standpoint.

However, from a Redemption standpoint, I think that would agree.

Personally neither of the above makes any amount of sense to me.  Do not discriminate that he is a college student.  Discriminate because he didn't cite anything.  Which you didn't do either.  And Magic, by my definition, requires rites or words of power or demonic contact.  Moses did nothing like a rite because rites are known top long and complicated even with a staff or wand and all he did was hit a rock/ red sea.  Daniel and co. was not reported ever doing magic.  They were simply the smart upper class brought over to help run the kingdom.  Therefore not magicians.  Believe me when i say I have looked deeply into the subject of magic as I write fantasy.

yes I realize I didn't cite but this is from an accumulation of knowledge and why I have accumulated it.  Try that guys.

Yeah I'm new so I haven't quite figured out how to add voice tones to text.  That las t post was not trying to insult just inform.  Sorry if any were offended

As magic is inherently evil when tried in reality I think that anyone who has contact, bargaining contact, with demonic entities is a magician.  Herb healing not so much. 

Magic would be a rite or ritual that tries to contact demons or manipulate the laws of reality with out direct order from God and his power. 

But what is "beyond the power of man?" Lifting things without touching them and communicating with nature spirits (neither Demon nor Angel) are within the power of man, but most people would consider that witchcraft simply because almost nobody knows how to do it.

If a gymnast were to go to a village where nobody knew how to jump and did a backflip, they would think it is "magic." That's why I agree that it is important to define magic in Redemption.

At least I'm remotely on topic when I be provocative

No, from a Christian worldview, fallen angels (and/or spirits of Nephilim) are demons. Nature spirits are something else entirely.

No, from a Christian worldview, fallen angels (and/or spirits of Nephilim) are demons. Nature spirits are something else entirely.

From a Christian worldview, there are only demons and angels. There are no nature spirits in a Christian worldview.

So it would logically follow that my statement is correct. In a Christian worldview, nature spirits are not demons. They are completely absent from the modern understanding of creation.

You can't mix paganism with Christianity.

Tell that to Dante and every Scholastic thinker since him.

And it's not about mixing anything with anything else. It's not an idea because there's a name for it, it has a name for it because it's factual or an idea.

That logic made absolutely no sense. There's also no such thing as nature spirits.

Me too. Unfortunately, the Holy Scriptures don't say anything on the subject.

Did Polarius and Colin switch accounts?