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So i was doing a bit of studying on on Magicians and was wondering... Should Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego count as Magicians?

Dan 2:12  Because of this the king was angry and very furious, and commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be destroyed.
Dan 2:13  So the decree went out, and the wise men were about to be killed; and they sought Daniel and his companions, to kill them.

Here it says that Daniel and friends were sought out to be killed, along with all the other "wise men"
(Hebrew word: chakkı̂ym, khak-keem' , (Chaldee); from a root corresponding to H2449; wise, that is, a Magian: - wise.}

Later in the passage...

Dan 2:48  Then the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon.

Daniel's appointed as "Cheif of all the wise men (Magicians, Chaldeans, Astrologers, etcetc)


So yea... do Daniel and friends count as Magicians?

Not all Magicians are evil (in Redemption), though. (see: The Magi)

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on August 20, 2009, 10:49:01 PM

I would rule magicians to be evil...So no Daniel and crew are not magicians.

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search deck for a N.T. Artifact and add it to hand. • Identifiers: NT Male Human, Magician

Actually, I think Daniel and his three friends were street magicians.

Not all Magicians are evil (in Redemption), though. (see: The Magi)

What makes you think that the Magi were magicians? I dearly hope it's not because they share four letters.

That's actually being debated as well. Perhaps the question is should they be considered astrologers (which is associated with magic and sorcery) or astronomers?

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 01:08:41 AM

Moses was probably a magician too (not kidding).

Why's that?

He knew to ask YHVH for his "true name". He also dueled magic with other magicians. There's a lot of Jewish schools of magic based off that stuff.

He knew to ask YHVH for his "true name".

I think that may have arisen from the fact that Moses figured people wouldn't believe him unless he spoke in the true name of YHVH.

He also dueled magic with other magicians.

Performing signs and wonders through God's power isn't magic in my opinion. Dark magic (witchcraft and sorcery) is a tool of the enemy, not something God uses.

By the definition of magic (and especially by the definitions of magic of that time period), everything Moses did was "holy" magic.
There's also a fine line between "dark magic" and magic that comes (in theory) from oneself.

That may be true in a sense, but I HIGHLY doubt that that definition of magic will count in Redemption.

I don't know...what would you consider to be the opposite of witchcraft and sorcery? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I honestly don't know myself... 

Actually there is a pretty clear distinction here.

Magic is when a person uses supernatural powers to accomplish something of their choosing.  It is when a person tries to tap into supernatural power for their own purposes.  These feats give glory to the person doing them.

Miracles are when a person simply does what God tells them to do and something supernatural happens, which gives the glory to God.

When Moses turned his staff into a snake, or the Nile to blood, or made water come from a rock, all these things were simply following God's commands.  No one thought that Moses had the power to do these things.  God got the glory.  That was not magic.

i suppose it all depends on how you define 'magic'. not all share the same definition as you, prof.

True, but wouldn't the world be a much simpler place if they did

Actually there is a pretty clear distinction here.

Magic is when a person uses supernatural powers to accomplish something of their choosing.  It is when a person tries to tap into supernatural power for their own purposes.  These feats give glory to the person doing them.

Miracles are when a person simply does what God tells them to do and something supernatural happens, which gives the glory to God.

When Moses turned his staff into a snake, or the Nile to blood, or made water come from a rock, all these things were simply following God's commands.  No one thought that Moses had the power to do these things.  God got the glory.  That was not magic.

During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

I don't know...what would you consider to be the opposite of witchcraft and sorcery? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I honestly don't know myself... 

I would think that the opposite would be miracles and then there's be a middle ground of meditation and things achieved by strength of will.

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 02:07:49 AM

By the definition of magic (and especially by the definitions of magic of that time period), everything Moses did was "holy" magic.
There's also a fine line between "dark magic" and magic that comes (in theory) from oneself.

That may be true in a sense, but I HIGHLY doubt that that definition of magic will count in Redemption.

Definitely don't think it should.

Quote from: Colin Michael on August 21, 2009, 09:25:53 AM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on August 21, 2009, 06:46:25 AM

Actually there is a pretty clear distinction here.

Magic is when a person uses supernatural powers to accomplish something of their choosing.  It is when a person tries to tap into supernatural power for their own purposes.  These feats give glory to the person doing them.

Miracles are when a person simply does what God tells them to do and something supernatural happens, which gives the glory to God.

When Moses turned his staff into a snake, or the Nile to blood, or made water come from a rock, all these things were simply following God's commands.  No one thought that Moses had the power to do these things.  God got the glory.  That was not magic.

During that time period, magic was invoking the power of a deity.

This is correct, but only from other cultures (not Jewish culture). They never would have referred to God's power as magic. 

Well, I would say that the reason for that is philological, not intentional.