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Author Topic: CWD and weapons  (Read 3416 times)

Offline Josh

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CWD and weapons
« on: August 22, 2019, 09:24:57 AM »
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I attack with a hero equipped with a weapon that has an ongoing ability (say, Abishai's Spear) while CWD is active.  CWD restricts me from playing Abishai's Spear when my hero enters battle.

What happens when an EC blocks?  I'm no longer restricted from playing Abishai's Spear, so is it active now?

Abishai's Spear

CWD
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Offline Gabe

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 09:53:56 AM »
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You were unable to activate it at the point that you were given the chance. It doesn’t reactivate later.
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Offline Sean

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 10:45:45 AM »
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If the weapon is equipped to a hero, wouldn't the restrict from CwD stop the weapon from entering battle? (thereby stopping the hero from entering battle)  Or is my understanding of "played" not correct?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 10:54:33 AM »
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With an enhancement, "played" refers to the time its ability is activated. With a weapon that is when it enters battle. So CwD does not stop a Hero with a weapon from entering battle, it just stops the weapon from activating.
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Offline Sean

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 01:27:26 PM »
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Once the EC is presented, how do you count the numbers on the enhancement?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 03:48:28 PM »
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Quote from: Sean on August 22, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
Once the EC is presented, how do you count the numbers on the enhancement?

When the EC is presented then the numbers apply normally since numbers are “on-going” in battle, so to speak.
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Offline Josh

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 04:18:58 PM »
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Quote from: Watchman on August 22, 2019, 03:48:28 PM
Quote from: Sean on August 22, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
Once the EC is presented, how do you count the numbers on the enhancement?

When the EC is presented then the numbers apply normally since numbers are “on-going” in battle, so to speak.

I guess the question is, do the numbers apply if the enhancement was never played?  Because at that point, the weapon is still just "equipped" to the hero, which by definition is a "Holds" ability.

So does an enhancement that is "Held" by a hero count its strength/toughness with the hero?  If there was a hypothetical hero that "Held" enhancements similar to the old Storehouse, and that hero entered battle while "Holding" a 3/2 enhancement, would the hero be increased 3/2? 
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 04:27:54 PM »
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Quote from: Josh on August 22, 2019, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: Watchman on August 22, 2019, 03:48:28 PM
Quote from: Sean on August 22, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
Once the EC is presented, how do you count the numbers on the enhancement?

When the EC is presented then the numbers apply normally since numbers are “on-going” in battle, so to speak.

I guess the question is, do the numbers apply if the enhancement was never played?  Because at that point, the weapon is still just "equipped" to the hero, which by definition is a "Holds" ability.

So does an enhancement that is "Held" by a hero count its strength/toughness with the hero?  If there was a hypothetical hero that "Held" enhancements similar to the old Storehouse, and that hero entered battle while "Holding" a 3/2 enhancement, would the hero be increased 3/2?

"Playing" in inherently about the ability on the card. Just because a weapon doesn't get "played" doesn't mean that it's not in battle on the Hero. I don't see any argument for the numbers not to count as long as the enhancement is in battle on the Hero.

As for that hypothetical, why would a Hero with a held enhancement count the numbers in battle? I don't even think this is ambiguous. Equip isn't a Hold ability or even related to Hold in any way. There's nothing in the rules that connects them.
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Offline Sean

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2019, 04:44:30 PM »
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Josh's and Kevin's replies are why I was asking (could go either way and doesn't seem clear cut).  I am not sure exactly what playing means but it doesn't make sense to me that you can't use the special ability but you do use the strength/toughness.  I would have thought that you get both or none. 
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Offline Josh

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2019, 05:04:55 PM »
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Quote from: Kevinthedude on August 22, 2019, 04:27:54 PM
As for that hypothetical, why would a Hero with a held enhancement count the numbers in battle? I don't even think this is ambiguous. Equip isn't a Hold ability or even related to Hold in any way. There's nothing in the rules that connects them.

Warrior-class characters have a "Holds" ability that allows them to Hold weapons.  Which is "equipping" the character.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2019, 07:02:11 PM »
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Quote from: Josh on August 22, 2019, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Kevinthedude on August 22, 2019, 04:27:54 PM
As for that hypothetical, why would a Hero with a held enhancement count the numbers in battle? I don't even think this is ambiguous. Equip isn't a Hold ability or even related to Hold in any way. There's nothing in the rules that connects them.

Warrior-class characters have a "Holds" ability that allows them to Hold weapons.  Which is "equipping" the character.

My understanding is that Equip has been codified as it's own thing entirely separate from Hold abilities. I can't find any mention of Hold in the REG entries for warrior class, weapon class, or equip.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 07:47:40 PM »
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The play entry used to state something to the effect of "You play an Enhancement by activating it's special ability and numbers". I don't see that under the play entry or the Enhancement entry in the REG glossary but it's at least implied if not explicitly stated somewhere. Unless something has changed, when you're restricted from playing an Enhancement the numbers cannot activate either making it effectively 0/0.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:45:09 PM by Gabe »
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2019, 07:57:20 PM »
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It's under Used By.

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Used By
An Enhancement is used by a character when one of the following is true:
•   the Enhancement is equipped to a character that enters battle
•   the Enhancement was placed on the character with a triggered play effect
•   the Enhancement is moved from a location or being held onto the character unless:
o   the Enhancement is a weapon being equipped to a character in a territory OR
o   the Enhancement is being placed by an ability
•   the Enhancement was used by a character that has been removed from battle and can be used by another character on the same side of the battle

When an Enhancement is used by a character, the special ability on it activates unless it is being used by a character in battle because the previous character to use it has been removed from battle. When an Enhancement is used by a character, that character gains the benefit of the numbers on the Enhancement.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 08:26:46 PM »
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Thanks, Marcus! I knew I'd seen that somewhere before.  ::)
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Offline Watchman

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 10:27:54 PM »
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So does that bolded part in the quote mean the numbers will still work or no?
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2019, 08:36:51 AM »
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By my understanding it means the numbers don't count.

So, weapons with ongoing abilities like Abishai's Spear, and ones with instant abilities like Sword of the Spirit, do nothing (including numbers) if they're equipped to a hero that enters battle when CwD is active. What about ones you choose to trigger later like Bow of Battle or ones with conditions fulfilled later, like Joshua's Spear?
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Offline Josh

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Re: CWD and weapons
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2019, 09:37:12 AM »
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Quote from: Bobbert on August 23, 2019, 08:36:51 AM
What about ones you choose to trigger later like Bow of Battle or ones with conditions fulfilled later, like Joshua's Spear?

Those are still ongoing abilities.  Since they never activated in the first place, it looks like they also do nothing (ability or numbers).
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