Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Bobbert on June 09, 2012, 02:17:44 PM
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This came up during a multiplayer game.
SWS exchanges with ASA.
Ahimelelch enters battle and returns Siege Army to hand.
1) Does it go to owners hand, or the hand of the person who exchanged as is controlling it?
We ruled the latter (though I think thats wrong).
The person whose hand it is in (not the owner of the card) uses Laver, and places ASA beneath deck.
2) Is this legal?
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1. Defaults to owner's hand.
2. Theoretically you could use it for laver, but it would go under its owners draw pile. However, as stated above the evil character would go to the owner's hand, so the laver situation would be a non-issue.
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Unfortunately, this is still a big debate, I (and others) think it should default to the player who played the Return/Take ability unless it says 'Return to Owners Hand' then it goes to the Owners Hand.
Yes, you can but it goes to Opponents Deck, but you will still draw, this follows the rule that all cards go to their owners deck by definition. You can't have an Opponents card in your deck.
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Unfortunately, this is still a big debate, I (and others) think it should default to the player who played the Return/Take ability unless it says 'Return to Owners Hand' then it goes to the Owners Hand.
Yes, you can but it goes to Opponents Deck, but you will still draw, this follows the rule that all cards go to their owners deck by definition. You can't have an Opponents card in your deck.
I haven't seen a definitive answer on this either. However, most of the posts that I have seen have pointed toward it being ruled that it defaults to owner's hand. One such example:
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/oak-banded-in-by-opponent/msg464390/#msg464390 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/oak-banded-in-by-opponent/msg464390/#msg464390)
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If you are talking about Ahimelek the Hittite, the SA specifically says to return to owner's hand. However, this is the default anyway from the REG:
Instant Abilities > Return > How to Play
If a card is returned to a deck other than its owner's deck, it is returned to its owner's deck instead. If a card is returned to a hand other than its owner's hand, it is returned to its owner's hand instead.
This also answers the Bronze Laver question.
Unfortunately, this is still a big debate, I (and others) think it should default to the player who played the Return/Take ability unless it says 'Return to Owners Hand' then it goes to the Owners Hand.
Return and Take do not follow the same rules.
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The debate is still open, and haven't been resolved. Currently, they are still being questioned if a card says 'Return to Hand' means you take it or it goes to Owner.
Either way, both sides have given good evidence for their Arguements.
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The REG is the offical ruling document until an Elder Overruling is documented in the "New Rules" section. Until then, Return to Hand will always return to owner's hand. A card would have to specifically say that you can take an opponent's card into your hand, but that is a different ability.
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As far as I could tell from the debate before, the Elders were disputing it.
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As far as I could tell from the debate before, the Elders were disputing it.
That is fine for them to discuss, but until they make an official announcement, hosts should rule according to the REG, and the REG Corrections thread.
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I agree for now, I am just bringing up the fact that its in dispute.
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The debate is still open, and haven't been resolved. Currently, they are still being questioned if a card says 'Return to Hand' means you take it or it goes to Owner.
Either way, both sides have given good evidence for their Arguements.
You are misrepresenting the debate entirely. The debate on the other side of the forums is regarding whether cards placed on other cards that are returned to hand go to owner's hand. This case is completely cut-and-dry:
Ahimelek the Hittite (RA2)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Red • Ability: 4 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return an Evil Character to owner's hand. Protect your warrior class Heroes from capture. Cannot be negated if David is in play.
And as pointed out by YMT, the rules state that when cards are returned to hand, they go to their owner's hand unless the card specifies otherwise.
The actual argument you are referencing was between you, Pol, Broward, and I (which I wouldn't say is "huge"), specifically regarded placed cards and nothing that has import on the question in this thread, and the Elders are determining a final ruling. And even in that thread, you acknowledged (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/weapons-follow/msg481186/#msg481186) that the ruling right now is that cards return to owner's hand unless otherwise specified.
Therefore, it is completely pointless to muck up this thread and add needless confusion and layers to the discussion when at no point did it need 'clarification' from you.