Author Topic: Cow Samuel  (Read 4737 times)

Offline Xonathan

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Cow Samuel
« on: May 12, 2016, 12:56:09 PM »
+1
Could one of his brigades also be teal? The bible mentions him wearing the linen ephod and he was the tabernacle priest at Shiloh.

I think it will make the new samuel even more playable.
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
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Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 12:59:07 PM »
+1
Could one of his brigades also be teal? The bible mentions him wearing the linen ephod and he was the tabernacle priest at Shiloh.

I think it will make the new samuel even more playable.

found this, it might help shed some light on this subject

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2016, 10:59:15 AM »
+1
Amazing catch. It would definitely appear Samuel was a Tabernacle Priest.
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Offline jesse

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2016, 11:39:24 AM »
+2
The REG entry for Priest says, "In Redemption, a priest is a character that was referred to as a priest in the Bible or in Church tradition."

Samuel was raised as a priest and acted as one, offering sacrifices, but the closest verse I could find in the Bible in which Samuel was referred to as a priest is Psalm 99:6 (which Ironisaac's article quoted):

"Moses and Aaron were among His priests, And Samuel was among those who called on His name; They called upon the LORD and He answered them." (NASB)

"Moses and Aaron were among his priests, Samuel also was among those who called upon his name. They called to the LORD, and he answered them." (ESV)

The crazy thing is...by the REG definition and using this verse, MOSES would be a priest too!!  :o
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kariusvega

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2016, 11:46:11 AM »
+3
urim and edicts for everyone!!

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2016, 11:59:35 AM »
-3
Wow, good point. That's pretty incontrovertable. *EDITED comment by Removal*



* EDIT from Soul Seeker:  You may disagree with our Elders but please refrain from insulting them.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 01:23:50 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2016, 12:03:30 PM »
+2
Pol,

Let's be a little careful with tone please.
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2016, 12:18:50 PM »
0
I do wonder what are the thought processes behind choosing brigades for certain characters. For example, The new Joshua has the identifier prophet but is not a green brigade character.
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2016, 12:22:04 PM »
-1
As to what determines brigades, it's not quite just the identifiers. Characters with multiple roles tend to get the brigades most strongly associated with them. For a while, everyone who uttered a single line of prophecy in the Bible was given Green, but now we've kind of figured it out. There's no hard-and-fast rule that I'm aware of (for example, Moses gets White even though he didn't even have the musician identifier for a long time), but for the most part the brigades now seem to be based on the most well-known parts of that person's life.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:14:39 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2016, 12:31:45 PM »
0
FTR, the concept of Samuel being a priest (and teal) was discussed during the development of the 2011 tins. Obviously the decision at that time was that Samuel is not a priest. I don't recall the reasoning and don't have time to dig it up right now.

It's possible that new evidence has been turned up here. This topic is interesting but not a high priority. I'll look into it deeper when time allows. I'm certain the elders will discuss it again. Most likely in consideration for the post Nationals REG release.

The present day ruling is that Samuel is not a priest.
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Offline Drrek

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2016, 12:39:32 PM »
+2
I often agree with what you are saying but the way you say it is often very confrontational and dismissive of others. Being right doesn't give you the right to act in these ways.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:17:26 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2016, 12:47:25 PM »
0
If the Bible outright and in no uncertain terms says "Moses and Aaron were my priests," do we really have to wait until after Nationals to add the identifier?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:18:09 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2016, 12:47:49 PM »
+1
Can Samuel be an "implied priest" lol
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2016, 01:09:06 PM »
0

But I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who will do according to what is in My heart and in My soul; and I will build him an enduring house, and he will walk before My anointed always.
1 Samuel 2:35 NASB

I believe this is a prophecy given from a Man of God to Eli concerning Samuel.
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2016, 01:58:45 PM »
0
If the Bible explicitly says a character is a Priest, it's frustrating that there even needs to be a process before adding the identifier.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:19:00 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2016, 02:25:02 PM »
0
I can understand that but we can be civil in discussing these things.
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2016, 02:28:00 PM »
-3
Sure, but I feel being civil doesn't produce any change.*



*Edited post by Soul Seeker to convey the thought without the perceived sarcasm.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:22:39 PM by soul seeker »
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2016, 02:34:51 PM »
0
Thank you sir
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

kariusvega

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2016, 02:51:42 PM »
0
If the Bible explicitly says a character is a Priest, it's stupid that there even needs to be a process before adding the identifier.

For cards before and without identifiers, that is the process

Oh and not to mention salvation!  ::)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 02:54:33 PM by kariusvega »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2016, 03:00:51 PM »
+1
Good point. If I were hosting a tournament and a player came up and pointed me to a place in the Bible with a standard translation that explicitly said Moses was 500 feet tall and from the Paleolithic era, I'd have to rule him as a Plesiosaur from that point on.
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Offline Drrek

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2016, 03:11:28 PM »
+1
Pol I agree with you on the moses issue, however as Paul says in Romans "if it is possible as far as it depends on you live at peace with everyone."  It is certainly possible for you to make your points without antagonizing other board members.
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Daniel

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2016, 03:17:31 PM »
+1
I have to disagree with Pol here. While Redemption is based on the bible, that does not necessarily mean that cards gain identifiers they were not printed with, especially before a team of elders/game rule people decide the card as such. It's a card game and has its own rules.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2016, 03:22:55 PM »
0
Tried that, doesn't work. You may not have been around for a decade of bringing up rulings problems or discrepancies (which hive finally since been rectified, so they were indeed real problems and discrepancies), being told the elders were actively discussing the problem and would give a ruling soon, only to bring it up again a year later and find that there had actually been no discussion at all and the elders had forgotten about it. Anyone who's met me in person will back me up that I'm about the most pleasant, mellow person you could hope to meet. But I care about this amazing game too much to stop my unending crusade for its improvement just so a couple people won't be mildly put off by my tone.

@Daniel, that actually is the rule, or at least it was in older rules documents. If the Bible explicitly says something is or is not and Redemption contradicts it, unless there is some vaguery or nuance somewhere, the Bible is more authoritative. For example, Samuel is somewhat vague if you don't know anything about Greek and Hebrew writing conventions, but Moses and Aaron are incontrovertible. Moses being a Musician was in debate for a long time, not because it was in question whether he composed a song, but because we hadn't made up our minds as to whether one recorded composition a Musician makes. However, it has never been in question that Melchizedek is a priest or David is a King or anything else of the like because the Bible explicitly says so. No difference here for Moses and Aaron, and while Samuel is obvious too if you know the slightest bit about how that sentence structure operates in the language it was written in, it is not quite explicit.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 03:32:48 PM by Minister Polarius »
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Daniel

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2016, 03:31:21 PM »
+1
The nature of this game and its leadership tends to be on the conservative/precautious side most of the time. You can view that as a bad thing (as I have in the past), or you can view it as the reason Redemption has lasted as long as it has.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:25:28 PM by soul seeker »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Cow Samuel
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2016, 03:35:12 PM »
0
I am relating a set of circumstances that you weren't around to witness.

I view conservatism as a good thing, bureaucracy as a bad thing, and obstructionism a bad thing. It is not conservative to immediately oppose any change whatsoever to the status quo, which is what most of the elders used to do. Furthermore, even conservatism is a bad thing when there is no opposition attempting change.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:27:59 PM by soul seeker »
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