Author Topic: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements  (Read 1514 times)

Offline Mageduckey

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« on: May 21, 2013, 12:23:22 PM »
0
Searched for a ruling on this and saw a 3-post thread with no official ruling from back in September 2011.  ::)

If Jahaziel places an enhancement on a hero in territory, does Covenant with Death stop that enhancement from activating when that hero begins a rescue attempt in a future turn (so they are not blocked in battle)?  Does it make a difference if CwD were activated when the enhancement was placed (ignoring the negation of the placer hero) versus being activated during the opponent's turn (after the place but before that hero has entered battle)?


Jahaziel, son of Zechariah: If you have a Hero in a set-aside area, you may place an O.T. Enhancement of matching brigade from hand or discard pile on that Hero. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately.

Covenant with Death: Negate characters. Restrict players from playing Enhancements unless a character is opposed in battle. Cannot be negated.

*Edit* Duh, of course they can't activate (just like weapons can't activate while unblocked).  Silly me.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 12:28:29 PM by Mageduckey »

Offline Professoralstad

  • Tournament Host, Redemption Elder
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10841
  • Everything is Awesome!
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2013, 12:59:43 PM »
+1
*Edit* Duh, of course they can't activate (just like weapons can't activate while unblocked).  Silly me.

That is correct.
Press 1 for more options.

Offline Praeceps

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
    • LFG
    • East Central Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 09:09:55 PM »
0
That being said, would they activate as soon as a blocker is presented, or is their window of activation gone?
Just one more thing...

Offline Redoubter

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4910
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 09:43:05 PM »
+1
That being said, would they activate as soon as a blocker is presented, or is their window of activation gone?

These cards say that the enhancements activate when they enter battle, so that is the time they can activate.  If they don't then, they don't get to.

Offline Drrek

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • The Bee of the Sea
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 09:44:35 PM »
+1
That being said, would they activate as soon as a blocker is presented, or is their window of activation gone?

These cards say that the enhancements activate when they enter battle, so that is the time they can activate.  If they don't then, they don't get to.

Technically you could still activate them off an accepted taunt.
The user formerly known as Easty.

Offline Redoubter

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4910
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2013, 09:46:32 PM »
0
That being said, would they activate as soon as a blocker is presented, or is their window of activation gone?

These cards say that the enhancements activate when they enter battle, so that is the time they can activate.  If they don't then, they don't get to.

Technically you could still activate them off an accepted taunt.

While amusing, that was not the question and so is technically not an answer ;)  A blocker cannot be presented if one is already in battle before the hero enters.  So nyah :P

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2013, 11:02:28 PM »
0
What if you use a choose the blocker ability?

If I remember correctly (and it hasn't been changed) abilities that trigger by entering battle (like preloaded enhancements or Hidden Treasures) happen after all the normal enter the battle (Character abilities, Gained Abilities, Weapons, Band, Choose the Blocker) so wouldn't they work if say the hero had some kind of choose the blocker?
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Professoralstad

  • Tournament Host, Redemption Elder
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10841
  • Everything is Awesome!
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 05:01:28 PM »
0
What if you use a choose the blocker ability?

If I remember correctly (and it hasn't been changed) abilities that trigger by entering battle (like preloaded enhancements or Hidden Treasures) happen after all the normal enter the battle (Character abilities, Gained Abilities, Weapons, Band, Choose the Blocker) so wouldn't they work if say the hero had some kind of choose the blocker?

I believe so, yes.

Press 1 for more options.

Offline Redoubter

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4910
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 06:57:57 PM »
0
What if you use a choose the blocker ability?

If I remember correctly (and it hasn't been changed) abilities that trigger by entering battle (like preloaded enhancements or Hidden Treasures) happen after all the normal enter the battle (Character abilities, Gained Abilities, Weapons, Band, Choose the Blocker) so wouldn't they work if say the hero had some kind of choose the blocker?

I believe so, yes.

They would not, because adding characters to the opposite side of battle is the FINAL FINAL step, after eeeeeeeeverything else.  Enhancements like these and pre-block play like Hidden Treasures are gained abilities.  From the REG:

Quote
Special Abilities
These are the instructions printed on the picture of some cards. ( See Anatomy of a Card and Resolving Special Ability Combinations in the rulebook).
There are two types of special abilities that define how a special ability is carried out: Ongoing Abilities and Instant Abilities. When a single card has more than one special ability ( including gained abilities), perform the abilities in this order:
First, complete all special abilities in the order written on the card except those that add a character to the battle. Note that some special abilities can happen together even though they may be separated by a period.
Second, if the card is a character with either a gained ability or a weapon-class enhancement, then activate the gained abilities in the order gained.
Finally, activate the special abilities on the carried weapon-class enhancement.
Complete banding abilities.
Complete any Choose Blocker or Rescuer abilities.

Offline Drrek

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • The Bee of the Sea
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 07:01:30 PM »
0

They would not, because adding characters to the opposite side of battle is the FINAL FINAL step, after eeeeeeeeverything else.  Enhancements like these and pre-block play like Hidden Treasures are gained abilities.  From the REG:

Special Abilities
These are the instructions printed on the picture of some cards. ( See Anatomy of a Card and Resolving Special Ability Combinations in the rulebook).
There are two types of special abilities that define how a special ability is carried out: Ongoing Abilities and Instant Abilities. When a single card has more than one special ability ( including gained abilities), perform the abilities in this order:
First, complete all special abilities in the order written on the card except those that add a character to the battle. Note that some special abilities can happen together even though they may be separated by a period.
Second, if the card is a character with either a gained ability or a weapon-class enhancement, then activate the gained abilities in the order gained.
Finally, activate the special abilities on the carried weapon-class enhancement.
Complete banding abilities.
Complete any Choose Blocker or Rescuer abilities.


The placed enhancement is not a gained ability.  The enhancement activates upon entering battle, and that's what's ability goes off.  All the things listed there are either A) special abilities the characters start with or B) weapons.  Regular enhancements that are placed and specified to activate when the character enters battle are neither of those things.

EDIT: I hate broken quotes.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 07:10:29 PM by Drrek »
The user formerly known as Easty.

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 07:07:18 PM »
0
They would not, because adding characters to the opposite side of battle is the FINAL FINAL step, after eeeeeeeeverything else.  Enhancements like these and pre-block play like Hidden Treasures are gained abilities.

Professor Alstad is correct, because Hidden Treasures and Enhancements that are placed by cards like Agur are triggered abilities, not gained abilities.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Redoubter

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4910
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Covenant with Death vs Placed enhancements
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 07:20:31 PM »
0
They would not, because adding characters to the opposite side of battle is the FINAL FINAL step, after eeeeeeeeverything else.  Enhancements like these and pre-block play like Hidden Treasures are gained abilities.

Professor Alstad is correct, because Hidden Treasures and Enhancements that are placed by cards like Agur are triggered abilities, not gained abilities.

If that is the case, then can it be added to the order of special abilities in the REG in the next update?  It happens often enough and is unclear enough in the REG currently that it would be beneficial to define when these types of actions take place.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal