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If I have Cov. with Eden active, and i block with wandering spirit and play Suicide, does he go to the bottom of my deck?

Covenant of Eden (Pa)
Type: Covenant • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 3 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Use as an enhancement or an Artifact. No character may be removed from the game. Instead discard the character targeted for removal. • Play As: Use as an enhancement or an Artifact. If a character is being removed from the game, discard that character instead.

Suicidal Swine Stampede (Di)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Remove all Evil Characters in battle from the game to shuffle all Lost Souls in your territory into owners' deck. • Play As: Remove all Evil Characters in battle from the game to return all Lost Souls in your territory into owners' deck. • Identifiers: NT, Connected with Demons • Verse: Luke 8:33 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Wandering Spirit (TP)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 3 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Reveal the bottom card of deck. If it is a demon, put it in your territory. May band to a generic demon. If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead. Cannot be negated. • Play As: Reveal the bottom card of deck. If it is a demon, place it in your territory. May band to a generic demon. If your demon is being discarded, place it beneath deck instead. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Demon • Verse: Luke 11:24 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Hey,

Yes Wandering Spirit goes to the bottom of your deck.  No your lost souls do not get shuffled.  The evil characters in battle were not removed from the game, so the cost was not paid so you don't get to do the benefit.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Hey,

Yes Wandering Spirit goes to the bottom of your deck.  No your lost souls do not get shuffled.  The evil characters in battle were not removed from the game, so the cost was not paid so you don't get to do the benefit.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

But the cost was insteaded to be a discard cost?

Wait, what? So Chamber+IaH doesn't work anymore?

Wow. My Job deck just got a lot less fun.

I'm pretty sure Bryon answered the same way during playtesting when I noticed it.  It didn't work for some reason, I just can't remember exactly what his reason was.

So, yeah, does this then change the way Chamber and IaH work as Pol asked?

No until elder #2 rules. And it works like this:You pay the cost but then after the cost completes another card jumps in and changes the cost. The cost was paid but then adverted after SSS completes.

Hey,

I'm curious, can anyone think of a ruling other than Chamber/I am Holy that allows the benefit to be done when the cost was insteaded?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Elymas and Tartaros
Jephthah and Chamber/Tartaros
Discarder LS and Tartaros

Pretty much all situations that I can think of involve Chamber and Tartaros.

Chamber of Angels has a Play As that says, "heal, then place instead", if that makes a difference.

FWIW, I would have to agree with SirNobody that the cost has not been paid with an instead. The very definition of instead would indicate that the prior action did not take effect. Perhaps the new REG can give better clarification of instead and its repercussions.

instead is not the same as redirect.

Really? How so? Seems like its just changing the target either way, but maybe I am missing something.

Redirect always changes the target. Instead may change the target, but more often keeps the target and changes the action. With a Redirect, for instance, you would still be discarding, but you discard someone else. With an Instead, you are no longer discarding - you are now placing on the bottom of deck, which is a completely different special ability.

The card tried to remove the evil characters (per the cost, thus paying said cost) Cov with eden redirected where they were going.

SSS tried to pay the cost, but Covenant with Eden would not let it. That is just my opinion, which is usually wrong with ruling questions. I think that this will have to wait until after Nats, since the Elders are mostly busy.

I have a bread for sale. You buy it, but the Government steps in and takes the money instead of me. You still get the bread.

Interesting analogy. I was thinking more like:

I have bread for anyone who raises their hand. You want some bread, but the Government cuts your arms off instead.

That doesn't even make sense. Can you point out the correlations there, because I don't see them.

Certainly. 

SSS wants the bread (shuffle lost souls). It tries to pay the cost (remove from game). Covenant with Eden won't let it pay the cost (Government cutting your arms off).