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Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on June 10, 2012, 09:38:32 AM

Quote from: Korunks on June 10, 2012, 09:29:47 AM

2. 2K horses triggers interrupting all ongoing abilities including the one archers lays down (there is no rule stating that you cannot interrupt yourself).

Korunks layed it out perfectly.
1) Interrupts all ongoing affects, be they yours, or your opponents

So are you saying that horses can interrupt an ongoing ability whose result is CBN?

They were discussing the Archer's ongoing ability that discards itself after battle, not Uriah at that point, since this became an Inception ruling thread...again

As pointed out by others, the discard ability on Uriah is CBN, so even the interrupt cannot affect it and it will still occur after the battl.

Quote from: megamanlan on June 10, 2012, 10:35:43 AM

There was an earlier thread that I saw an Elder mention you can't interrupt your own Characters,...

You will have to source that quote, since it is likely you are taking it out of context.

Agree with YMT.  ITB interrupts ALL ongoing abilities.  Doesn't matter if they are on characters or enhancements, if they are in the battle, they are suspended until the interrupt completes.

RDT: That part of the rules is still in the REG HERE.  Everyone should note that it does state ALL ongoing abilities in battle.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on June 10, 2012, 10:37:48 AM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on June 10, 2012, 09:38:32 AM

Quote from: Korunks on June 10, 2012, 09:29:47 AM

2. 2K horses triggers interrupting all ongoing abilities including the one archers lays down (there is no rule stating that you cannot interrupt yourself).

Korunks layed it out perfectly.
1) Interrupts all ongoing affects, be they yours, or your opponents

So are you saying that horses can interrupt an ongoing ability whose result is CBN?

They were discussing the Archer's ongoing ability that discards itself after battle, not Uriah at that point, since this became an Inception ruling thread...again

As pointed out by others, the discard ability on Uriah is CBN, so even the interrupt cannot affect it and it will still occur after the battl.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 10, 2012, 11:00:38 AM

Quote from: megamanlan on June 10, 2012, 10:35:43 AM

There was an earlier thread that I saw an Elder mention you can't interrupt your own Characters,...

You will have to source that quote, since it is likely you are taking it out of context.

Agree with YMT.  ITB interrupts ALL ongoing abilities.  Doesn't matter if they are on characters or enhancements, if they are in the battle, they are suspended until the interrupt completes.

RDT: That part of the rules is still in the REG HERE.  Everyone should note that it does state ALL ongoing abilities in battle.

Huh,

I wonder why I couldn't find that earlier, I was even in the interrupt section.

Thanks for the link.

The ITB would interrupt Uriah's ability, if it wasn't CBN.

You do realize that if that was true, it makes the Archers heavily OP? Because now I can save him at least 3 times just in T1, and its worse in T2.

That's because no one who runs Archers obeys that crazy rule. I definately don't, and neither do people who run Archers that I've met.

That's because no one who runs Archers obeys that crazy rule. I definately don't, and neither do people who run Archers that I've met.

I agree with JSB's correction of your post.  This is actually how the rule works, and you haven't had a good T2 tournament out here without seeing 4 archers band, last one has horses, and they play an end-the-battle card and watch the opponent cry.

That's the rule.  Archer's ability is instant in the discarding of a hero, and ongoing in the discarding of Archer.  An ITB like Horses interrupts all ongoing abilities, but not the instant abilities on your card.  Therefore, the discard of a hero happens but if you play an End the Battle off of a play-next, the ongoing discard of Archer can never reactivate.

That's the rule, even if you've never actually seen it.  It is quite annoying, mind you   But not terribly OP.

Technoethicist, re-reading I am not sure if I answered your question or not. I know I have the ruling correct (Jacob + NT Micheal etc.), and what I wrote is how I came to understand it myself. If you need further explanation of why it is so, you may want to start a new thread.  Maybe someone more sagacious than myself will answer.

No, that was quite clear, and hadn't really thought it about it like that. Thanks!

...
You're right, in the five hours you've known about this combo you've obviously figured out more about it than every playtester, elder, and veteran T2 player over the past five years. 

No, I've found an easy way to exploit it, which came from the new set.

If you want the ruling changed I think you are going to need to create a deck that demonstrates the OP-ness of this. The Archers + Horses ruling has been in place at least as long as Forgotten History has (Priests), and that first year of Priests was a major piece of one of the dominant T2 defense metas (Assyrian swarm).

If your opponent is silly enough to allow you to do that that many times, then perhaps T2 is not the game for him. Most T2 players will either be protecting their Heroes in territory, negating the abilities of Archers, or not allowing them to use Horses.

Quote from: megamanlan on June 11, 2012, 03:33:25 AM

No, I've found an easy way to exploit it, which came from the new set.

If you want the ruling changed I think you are going to need to create a deck that demonstrates the OP-ness of this. The Archers + Horses ruling has been in place at least as long as Forgotten History has (Priests), and that first year of Priests was a major piece of one of the dominant T2 defense metas (Assyrian swarm).

Technically the OP-ness originated in FoOF, when Assyrian Archer came out.

That does have u draw at least 5 each time, also I can run 4 Horses in a Deck, so it gets worse, plus with the card combos that Egyptians can pull off easily, it can get back quickly.

That does have u draw at least 5 each time, also I can run 4 Horses in a Deck, so it gets worse, plus with the card combos that Egyptians can pull off easily, it can get back quickly.

Then do it, because it has been tried, trust me.  It seems better on paper than it really is, just like every other 8-card combo.  Echoing everyone else here to tell you it is not that OP and will be stopped.  Has been for years as far as I can tell, and when you see it now it's not the main point of the defense and you only get it off once (if you are very very lucky).

If you think it is so OP, just run the deck.  You'll see for yourself.

How's this?
Egyptian Archer+Archer+Archer+Archer+EM+TDP+EHorses+Wonders Forgotten (up to 4 times) or Forgotten History (up to 4 times) for a grand total 36 Discarded Heroes in T2 before I have to Discard my Archers and at least 3 in T1.

I'm not sure you are even trying, megamanlan.   

If you started with King Mannaseh you could do King Manasseh w/ 2k Horses + EM + EArcher w/ Egyptian Spear + EArcher w/ Egyptian Spear + EArcher w/ Egyptian Spear + EArcher w/ Egyptian Spear + Huge Egyptian w/ EHorse + Wonder Forgotten (up to 4 times) or Forgotten History (up to 4 times) or Gibeonite Trickery (up to 4 times). But even that is not all, because prior to Huge Egyptian I would add in TDP w/ EHorse and use that to play Joseph's Brothers' Scheme, starting a side battle where I pit my Israelite Archer + Israelite Archer + Israelite Archer + Israelite Archer + Angel of God against some other hapless hero. This I would also do 4 times.

So toting it all up, I would discard 65 cards (over half of your deck!!!!) and kill 52 heroes and 16 ECs in territory. Adding it all up I have toasted 65 + 52 + 16 =  133 cards, which is 127% of your typical 105-card deck.  Yowch.

Usually your opponent would just opt to not attack rather than let you chain archers.

Usually your opponent will wait to get his banding EC and then lick his chops while waiting for you to make a rescue.