Author Topic: Could there be a thirteenth or even fourteenth Disciple? (Read 5393 times)

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #25 on:** May 31, 2011, 08:40:58 AM »

That is correct...CURENTLY. Wanting to see if the case has been made here to add him as the 12th good disciple.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 31, 2011, 12:47:23 PM »

I've definitely seen people post about this before, and the result has always been that he's not one, and will not become one. This is interesting when you consider that the vast majority of people in these threads think he should be.

soul seeker · « **Reply #27 on:** May 31, 2011, 01:44:37 PM »

If we make a Purple Judas, then this point is moot.

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #28 on:** May 31, 2011, 02:08:48 PM »

That would be cool too! Either reprint one or the other in purple or red.

lp670sv · « **Reply #29 on:** May 31, 2011, 03:40:24 PM »

Just make Judas purple brigade hero. He was one of the twelve and if he hadn't turned Jesus over he doesn't get crucified, the world isn't saved and all of Christianity is irrelevant. Plus Jesus practically told him to do it.

Soundman2 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 31, 2011, 04:05:48 PM »

I think Paul is powerful enough already and to make him a disciple would just make him a power house. What new advantage does it have to make him a disciple?

drb1200 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 31, 2011, 05:41:31 PM »

Quote from: Red on May 28, 2011, 09:31:59 PM

The apostles WERE the disciples as Redemption misleadingly terms it.(The disciples numbered in the hundreds. The apostles? Twelve. Paul was the true replacement of Judas. Matthias should count though.)

There is no scriptural evidence of Paul being a disciple.

The Warrior · « **Reply #32 on:** May 31, 2011, 06:34:36 PM »

Matthias

The real question is why should Matthias NOT be a Disciple

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #33 on:** June 01, 2011, 04:56:01 PM »

There is not really a biblical reason for Matthias to NOT be one.
I say he should be counted as a disciple.
The one reason why I would say he shouldn't be one is because Thad-the-Mad would only get stronger
(heaven forbid that happens).

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #34 on:** June 01, 2011, 05:18:41 PM »

True, but how often does someone playing Disciples get and keep all eleven good one's out right now. I think that Redemption gameplay should represent the reality of the Sctiptures as closely as it can. Judas should not be considered a disciple any longer and Matthias should. Judas removed himself and God filled that vacancy with Matthias.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #35 on:** June 01, 2011, 06:41:23 PM »

Judas is a disciple no matter what. Just because he was no longer is a disciple does not mean he was not ever a disciple.

Soundman2 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:25:18 PM »

Quote from: uthminister [BR] on June 01, 2011, 05:18:41 PM

I think that Redemption gameplay should represent the reality of the Sctiptures as closely as it can. J

Why? This is just a card game, Think about what you what to do here you would like to add one more person to fishing boat, now your opponet can draw 12 cards. Do we what to do that?

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #37 on:** June 01, 2011, 09:55:06 PM »

Yep!

TheJaylor · « **Reply #38 on:** June 01, 2011, 10:24:05 PM »

Quote from: Soundman2 on June 01, 2011, 08:25:18 PM

Quote from: uthminister [BR] on June 01, 2011, 05:18:41 PM
I think that Redemption gameplay should represent the reality of the Sctiptures as closely as it can. J

Why? This is just a card game, Think about what you what to do here you would like to add one more person to fishing boat, now your opponet can draw 12 cards. Do we what to do that?

I agree with Uthminister, even though sometimes the Bible can make cards a little OP'd doesn't mean that a game based on the Bible shouldn't copy it. But of course we aren't going to make a "God" card or a "Jesus" card because those would give the game a knife in the heart, not saying that God or Jesus would ever do that but in game terms.

lp670sv · « **Reply #39 on:** June 01, 2011, 10:37:32 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on June 01, 2011, 10:24:05 PM

Quote from: Soundman2 on June 01, 2011, 08:25:18 PM
Quote from: uthminister [BR] on June 01, 2011, 05:18:41 PM
I think that Redemption gameplay should represent the reality of the Sctiptures as closely as it can. J

Why? This is just a card game, Think about what you what to do here you would like to add one more person to fishing boat, now your opponet can draw 12 cards. Do we what to do that?
I agree with Uthminister, even though sometimes the Bible can make cards a little OP'd doesn't mean that a game based on the Bible shouldn't copy it. But of course we aren't going to make a "God" card or a "Jesus" card because those would give the game a knife in the heart, not saying that God or Jesus would ever do that but in game terms.

Son of God........

Soundman2 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 02, 2011, 01:35:07 AM »

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on June 01, 2011, 10:24:05 PM

Quote from: Soundman2 on June 01, 2011, 08:25:18 PM
Quote from: uthminister [BR] on June 01, 2011, 05:18:41 PM
I think that Redemption gameplay should represent the reality of the Sctiptures as closely as it can. J

Why? This is just a card game, Think about what you what to do here you would like to add one more person to fishing boat, now your opponet can draw 12 cards. Do we what to do that?
I agree with Uthminister, even though sometimes the Bible can make cards a little OP'd doesn't mean that a game based on the Bible shouldn't copy it.

Umm... Yes it dose. If the Bible makes a card or combo OP'd then for game play purposes we should not make it Biblically accurate. Just like I think that rulings should not be made on theology alone, but on what is good for the game, play experience and theology

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #41 on:** June 02, 2011, 09:43:30 AM »

I agree with you Soundman. I really don't think this will break the game though. It would make the disciples deck suceptible to more cards because it would contain three brigades which seems to be the magic number with lost soul and evil abilities.

Any word from the PTB? Elders? Playtesters? Rob? (My birthday is in July so maybe you can get me a disciples identifyer for Matthias.)

Gabe · « **Reply #42 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:20:58 AM »

We decided on the definition of "Jesus' 12 Disciples" a long time ago with the knowledge of Matthias and Paul. The characters mentioned in Luke 6:13-16 are the only ones that meet Redemptions definition.

I'm sorry to inform you that this isn't being discussed any further by the elders.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #43 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:37:27 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on June 02, 2011, 10:20:58 AM

We decided on the definition of "Jesus' 12 Disciples" a long time ago with the knowledge of Matthias and Paul. The characters mentioned in Luke 6:13-16 are the only ones that meet Redemptions definition.

I'm sorry to inform you that this isn't being discussed any further by the elders.

I'd still like to know why that is though. If that's the decision that you guys have made, then fine, I understand having to find a balance between game play and being Biblically accurate. However, Matthias was specifically chosen to replace Judas. I feel like a better answer than, "because this is what we decided" is needed to justify distinctly going against the Bible (albeit for a relatively trivial issue).

Professoralstad · « **Reply #44 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:56:10 AM »

A few things:

First, Matthias is never referred to as a Disciple. The following 4 verses are the only mentions of him in the Bible. He is said to be numbered among the Apostles, but as has been pointed out, Apostle=/=Disciple:

Quote from: Acts 1:23-26, KJV

23And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Second, Matthias was never mentioned in the Gospels, was not with Jesus at the Last supper, in the fishing boat, and was never specifically called by Jesus. Since we may someday have Disciple-specific cards regarding these several events, we will have to specify all Disciples except Matthias, otherwise we have more Biblical inaccuracy.

Third, if we were to use a broader definition of Disciple than just "the twelve guys who followed Jesus during his earthly ministry" what's to stop us from saying that a Disciple is anyone who followed Jesus? That would include almost any NT Hero, and that would just be a bit much.

It's not "against the Bible" to define Disciples however we'd like (as long as their is a clear, logical delineation) for gameplay reasons, just like its not "against the Bible" for us to say that the Magi were not Magicians, and that Ananias and Sapphira were not Heretics. We could have had perfectly logical reasons for taking the opposite stance on any of those, but we didn't.

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #45 on:** June 02, 2011, 11:12:31 AM »

That works. So will we see any cards that refer to Apostles specifically? Thanks for the explanation.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #46 on:** June 02, 2011, 12:20:30 PM »

Quote from: uthminister [BR] on June 02, 2011, 11:12:31 AM

That works. So will we see any cards that refer to Apostles specifically? Thanks for the explanation.

Possibly someday, and if such cards are made, then I am certain that Matthias and Paul will definitely be included in that identifier.

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Author Topic: Could there be a thirteenth or even fourteenth Disciple? (Read 5393 times)

Chronic Apathy

lp670sv

drb1200

lp670sv

Chronic Apathy