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Here is the current definition

"Disciples
Several Redemption® cards contain special abilities that refer to cards that refer to “one of Jesus’ 12 disciples.” The following cards refer to cards that refer to a disciple:
•      Bartholomew (Di), Fishing Boat (Di), Hospitality of Martha (Wo), Ordained as a Disciple (P), and Sent Two by Two (Di)
This includes the following disciple cards:
•      Andrew (Ap), Bartholomew (Di), Bartholomew (Nathaniel) (Ap), James Son of Alphaeus (Ap), James, Son of Alphaeus (Di), James, Son of Zebedee (Ap), James, son of Zebedee (H), John (H), John (P), John (Pr), Judas Iscariot (BL), Judas Iscariot (BU), Judas Iscariot (L), Judas Iscariot (Pi), Judas Iscariot (UL), Matthew (Levi) (Ap), Matthew (Di), Peter (Ap), Philip (Ap), Philip (Di), Simon the Zealot (Ap), Simon the Zealot (Di), Thaddaeus (Ap), Thaddeus (Di), Thomas (Ap), and Thomas (Di)"

My contention is that both Matthias and Paul should be considered Disciples as well...

Matthias' case is based on Acts 1:12-26...

 12 Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[c] from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
 15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.”

 18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

 20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:

   “‘May his place be deserted;
   let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e]

   and,

   “‘May another take his place of leadership.’[f]

 21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

 23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Paul's case is based on Galatians 1:11-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:3-8...

11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
 13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

&

 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Matthias was a disciple, but not Paul though.

The are good arguments to include both Paul and Matthias in a list of Disciples, however for Redemption purposes we only count the 12 Jesus chose at the start of his earthly ministry.

Hospitality of Martha says the Martha may band to any of the 12, she can't band to judas so who's the twelfth?

Quote from: Aelec Enitnel on May 28, 2011, 04:04:12 PM

Hospitality of Martha says the Martha may band to any of the 12, she can't band to judas so who's the twelfth?

Converted Judas.


I agree Matthias should be but not Paul, he was just a prophet of Jesus.

He should

I agree he should be considered a disciple.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Matthias-Judas-Paul.html

Quote

The disciples knew that whoever was to replace Judas had to be a firsthand witness of the entire ministry of Jesus, just as they were (Acts 1:21-22)

Personally, I think Matthias should qualify, as he was the spiritual successor to the position. Converting Judas can be tricky, and adding a 7/7 Gold Hero with no SA (unless Matthias has been reprinted as of late? It's possible that my knowledge of any cards post-2008 is limited...) probably won't break the game.

Orange... Alstad... Lives?!?!!!

Simple Answer:
NO! THAD NEEDS LESS POWER, NOT MORE!

The apostles WERE the disciples as Redemption misleadingly terms it.(The disciples numbered in the hundreds. The apostles? Twelve.  Paul was the true replacement of Judas. Matthias should count though.)

Matthias also qualifies for that since he was with Jesus and the others since the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry.  He followed in the background, until Judas' demise led to him being brought to the forefront throught the wisdom of the Word and by the leading of the Spirit.  Unless Matthias is getting a reprint, I believe he should receive an identifier as a disciple. That's my 2 cents.

It is my understanding that the word Disciple is akin to "student of," from which we gain the word 'discipline.'  Yes, Paul was a "student of" Jesus, but he was not with the 12 throughout Jesus's ministry.  In fact, he came into the picture afterwards.  The 12 chosen were direct students of Christ who basically laid the foundations of Christianity, and studied directly under Jesus.  Matthais was specifically chosen to replace Judas, and the Bible only mentions 12 "chosen" in specific context.  While Paul was separately chosen by Jesus to play a major role in the foundation of Christianity, he was not chosen as 1 of the original 12.  Hence, he still has awesome abilities in Redemption. 

In short, Matthias definitely, Paul no, based on the context of the scriptures and how the abilities of the 12 work in Redemption.  IMO, it wouldn't make sense.

Carry On,

-C_S

I have a feeling that this is being discussed "behind closed doors" right now. When the PTB have a concensus on this issue, can we get a ruling within the week please? I am wanting to playtest and see if it is even feasible to add Matthias to a disciples deck. I am already quite certain that Paul is not even being considered because of how OP'd it would be to include him. Thanks!

He's not, but he should be (imo of course).