Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I think this is a lesson learned for both parties.  Player A could maybe execute some kind of verbal check before moving on to the next phase if he's done something "significant" like that.  Player B I think needs to be more vocal if he needs more time, he could ask to look at the cards, or just for Player A to hold on for a second.

There are always going to be differences in how much two different parties think is "enough" of the parts of the game that are still subjective, and time allowed for responsive action is probably at the top of the list.  Players need to communicate with each other more, and be assertive in making sure they have the chance to follow the action.

If Player A acted in good faith and allowed time to play a Dominant, I would probably just let them play through from this point since knowledge that the character has entered battle has already "poisoned the well" against the "if I knew you were going to do that, I would have played this instead" aspect of the game.  But make the players aware that they need to assert themselves (politely) if they need a little time to adjust, and be courteous (and generous) with time allowed (and maybe an inquisitive nudge) before moving forward.

Huh, I never realized that about Egyptian Horses....

Kirk

Incidentally, I know this really wasn't your question, but doesn't the weapon say "evil enhancement"?  How do you play the good green one?

wow, I never realized that.  It is amazing how you tend to just gloss over that stuff.  This maked evil gold a little less versatile than the other brigades.  I know Pale green and gray can be used on offense and defense.  I havent yet checked Crimson, but this is really interesting.

Hey,

The few seconds to play a dominant idea only applies when the situation is obvious.  When there is something less obvious about the situation additional time needs to be allowed giving the opponent enough time to fully understand the effect of what was done.  Things like King Zedekiah gets initiative against Faithful Servaou nnt is obvious.  Things like determining initiative in a Simeon-Jacob-Captain vs. Lot's Wife-Beast from the Sea-Unclean Spirit-Simon the Magician situation is less obvious.  Generally the use of Holy Grail is an obvious situation, but if the opponent has a question like whether or not the ability works after conversion, it becomes a less obvious situation.

In a face to face game, if there is no response to this action in the first few seconds, you would be free to start your battle.  But if in the first few seconds your opponent starts looking at Egyptian Horses and reading it's ability closely, then you need to give him more time.

In an RTS game, if your opponent claims they needed more time to identify the effects of your action, it becomes an honors system issue and you should give them the opportunity to play Christian Martyr before you attack.  Generally speaking in RTS you have 3 options: ask after every action if they want to respond, play really really slow, or play normally and be willing to take things back when situations like this come up.  I generally go for the last option, despite the fact that it gives up a slight tactical advantage, because it is least disruptive to game play.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Schaef and Kevin,
Do you have any further input regarding this situation specifically in an RTS game?

I've always been a proponent of verbal confirmation. I think it should be in the rules that a "my initiative?" is mandatory in battle before playing cards. From my perspective, once everyone has said "I can't do anything," it's much too late (like taking your hand off a piece you have moved in Chess).

This doesn't help with all situations, as it would be ridiculous to require confirmation after everything (Lost Soul drawn...ok....High Places down...ok...Judas from hand...ok...Judas into KotW...ok) but I believe there are a certain few commonly brought-up issues that could easily be solved by requiring verbal check, taking care of the lion's share of the gray area.

I know I'm probably the most unofficial person making a comment.  But does it really matter when CM is played, because does it not stop the rescue attempt dead in its tracks, because there is now no hero to rescue a lost soul?

It does matter because you can prohibit them from gaining the opportunity to play an enhancement.  For example, if my opponent makes a rescue attempt with Lois, a 2/2 purple hero, and I block with Haman, a 6/6 brown evil character.  If I suspect that my opponent has Authority of Christ promo in his hand and I have 10 evil characters sitting in my territory without any protection, I might very well want to play Christian Martyr to keep my opponent from wiping out my entire defense.

Kirk

Whoops, my bad, haha.

Kirk

I understand that, I understated what I was saying.  I was only referring to the RA itself, not anything that happened because of the card played.  But being wiped out because you didn't catch something more quickly would be no fun!

The problem in this case was a converted evil character with a WC enh that allowed them to come into battle and play first (except that also in this case, that turned out to not be the case).  Once they entered battle, CM couldn't stop them from playing ANB which made it a whole new ballgame.  But if they were CM'd in territory before entering battle, then that could be stopped.