Author Topic: Location and Timing again  (Read 1027 times)

Offline galadgawyn

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Location and Timing again
« on: June 08, 2010, 06:38:51 PM »
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This question wasn't addressed so I'll ask again. 

If I block with Absolom's Soldiers with horses and discard a hero in battle and then band to Absolom's Soldiers with horses and play an enhancement to remove their discard pile from the game, does the hero I discarded get removed from the game? 

So when I discard, is the hero actually in the discard pile and comes back out when they play a negate, or are they in battle waiting for their chance to negate to see if they really get discarded, or are somehow sort of both, or what?  If they are still in battle could I target them with a second discard/capture so even if my opponent negates one, the other one gets them?  Could they even play a negate in this case?

Related scenario: 

My opponent rescues with a hero with Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass and I block with Uzzah.  Now they still get a chance to play an enhancement, correct?  I thought they could even negate Uzzah's ongoing ability.   
But what if Darius' Decree is active?  Uzzah is actually in the discard pile so there is no evil character in battle and they can't play any enhancements, right?  What if I block and play Deceit of Sapphira?  Are there any evil characters in battle at that point?

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Location and Timing again
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 11:40:18 PM »
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This question wasn't addressed so I'll ask again. 
This isn't 1 question, it's a bunch.  I'll try to answer them all :)

If I block with Absolom's Soldiers with horses and discard a hero in battle and then band to Absolom's Soldiers with horses and play an enhancement to remove their discard pile from the game, does the hero I discarded get removed from the game?
They are being removed from the game.  But unless it is CBN or unless you finish your banding chain with another Absolom's Soldiers who plays a card to "end the battle" (ie. Forgotten History), then the hero would still have "special initiative" to play a negate which could target the discarding EE.  If they end up not getting discarded, then they also wouldn't be in the discard pile to get removed.

So when I discard, is the hero actually in the discard pile and comes back out when they play a negate, or are they in battle waiting for their chance to negate to see if they really get discarded, or are somehow sort of both, or what?
I see it that they are in limbo land (very technical term, totally trademarked and everything) which is neither in battle nor in the discard pile.  They will be in the discard pile unless they can play a negate.

If they are still in battle could I target them with a second discard/capture so even if my opponent negates one, the other one gets them?  Could they even play a negate in this case?
No.  And therefore, the 2nd question is moot.

My opponent rescues with a hero with Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass and I block with Uzzah.  Now they still get a chance to play an enhancement, correct?  I thought they could even negate Uzzah's ongoing ability.
This is correct.  The were blocked and therefore, Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass is triggered.  So after Uzzah is finished doing his special ability, the trigger does happen and you would get to play an enhancement.  But to stop Uzzah, it would have to be something that either negated the last character's special ability (which I don't think there are any cards like that), or something that negated the ongoing protection of the LSs from being rescued (which I also don't know of any cards that do that).

Questions, I'm less sure about in the next post :)

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Location and Timing again
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 11:44:36 PM »
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But what if Darius' Decree is active?  Uzzah is actually in the discard pile so there is no evil character in battle and they can't play any enhancements, right?
That is a tough one.  On the one hand, DD seems to be worded as a prevent ability.  However, when Angel's Sword is triggered, there is an EC in battle so that would be an unresolved trigger that lets you play an enhancement.  By the time that you are ready to play the enhancement, there is no longer an EC in battle, which would normally mean that you couldn't play due to DD.  But in this case you would already have the ability to play unless something interrupted that ability (which DD doesn't do).  Therefore, I think that DD would not stop you from playing an enhancement.

What if I block and play Deceit of Sapphira?  Are there any evil characters in battle at that point?
No ECs are not in battle at that point.  However, the trigger would still already have gone off.  Therefore, I think the same ruling would apply.

I'm not sure on these last 2 questions, and would welcome the input of other Elders and/or REPs

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Location and Timing again
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 11:52:04 PM »
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Darius' Decree is a very tricky card :)

I don't believe that you can play an enhancement via Brass Helmet.

This basically all pends on the outcome of the other thread dealing with triggered abilities (MC + Twice Afflicted)

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=21395.60

That's the thread, and while it's not extremely conclusive - Bryon seems to agree with my position.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 12:04:20 AM by Red Dragon Thorn »
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