Author Topic: Converted Evil Character (Read 8097 times)

Crashfach2002 · « **on:** February 07, 2009, 11:09:12 PM »

I know that the special ability of a converted Evil Character stay active unless they target a Hero. My question is how do you play some cards after they have been converted?

1. King Ben-Hadad I "If block is successful, holder may look at opponent's have and place one card beneath opponent's draw pile"

2. King Rezin "Banding and capture abilities on evil cards cannot be negated if holder has a Damascus Site in play"

3. King Merodach-baladan "Look at opponent's hand. You may play a crimson Enhancement with a II Kings or Isaiah reference"

4. Gomer "Character may band with any male Evil Character each turn"

5. Ashpenaz "Convert a captured human Hero in your territory to a crimson Evil Character. You control the character"

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2009, 11:11:38 PM »

EDIT: ~~1. Heroes don't block, so it doesn't do anything~~

2. I would say this would work.

3. The look part works, but the crimson part doesn't work obviously.

4. Heroes don't band to ECs, so this doesn't do anything

5. This one I'm not 100% sure on. However, it is not a normal heroes ability to convert a hero. So, I would say no.

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2009, 11:14:40 PM »

#2 wouldn't do much for you either way; the ability specifies "evil" banding and capture abilities, and King Rezin is no longer evil. If anything you'd be helping your opponent block your converted Rezin.

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2009, 03:59:37 PM »

A new question, Say an evil character is converted. You can use that converted evil character for a rescue attempt. But say you have the artifact Chariot of Fire "following your rescue attempt, return all heroes in your discard pile to your draw pile. Shuffle draw pile." activated. Since he is a hero does he go back into your draw pile, or get discarded, then in discard pile he is no longer a hero and will not get shuffled back in?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2009, 04:28:21 PM »

once he hits the d/c pile, he resets and becomes a EC. So he activates CoF, but isn't shuffled into deck.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2009, 04:47:46 PM »

Davids Harp however would work. It targets the character to return to the draw pile BEFORE he reaches the discard pile.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2009, 04:54:22 PM »

right, but he doesn't come back as a hero.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2009, 04:57:06 PM »

I know, but thats a way to recycle that EC again.

frisian9 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:29:52 PM »

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on February 07, 2009, 11:09:12 PM

5. Ashpenaz "Convert a captured human Hero in your territory to a crimson Evil Character. You control the character"

"If an Evil Character is converted to a Hero, it’s special ability works as long as it does not harm Heroes". (REG)

Converting a Hero is considered harm, right? I think Ashpenaz can't use its SA if converted to a Hero.

Mike

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:31:36 PM »

It would seem that way to me.

TimMierz · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:24:16 PM »

Harm is an action from the opposite alignment. A Hero can never harm a Hero, by definition. That definition can't be right.

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:20:13 PM »

I agree that it seems "unherolike" for Ashpenaz to convert a captured Hero to an evil Character and it shouldn't work. But, based on the current definition, I believe that it would work. It seems inconsistent if we say it doesn't work because he's "harming" a "captured Hero".

The first thing that stands out to me is that captured Heroes are not treated the same as Heroes. (They can't be Christian Martyred. They aren't discarded to Wrath of Stan. etc) Captured Heroes don't have any allignment. They're nuetral because they're being treated as a Lost Soul. Based on other rulings a Hero and a captured Hero are not treated the same.

Along those same thoughts, I see this being similar to not allowing Arioch to discard a "captured Character" because it's not a human but a "captured human".

We could fix this by adding "or captured Heroes" to the end of the definition. That would also stop cards like Barabbas from working when converted. We might even expand the definition further and say "or Lost Souls". That would stop both Ashpenaz and Barabbas but it would also stop the ability of Arioch from converting. One drawback with that is it would stop abilities like Nebushasban, who could be used to help gain access when he's converted.

"If an Evil Character is converted to a Hero, it’s special ability works as long as it cannot negatively effect a does not harm Heroes or captured Heroes/Lost Souls."

That being said it's possible that I'm overlooking some obvious reason that Ashpenaz shouldn't work still based on the current definition.

Rubber band warrior · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:50:17 AM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on February 07, 2009, 11:11:38 PM

1. Heroes don't block, so it doesn't do anything

Wrong. It never says that he has to be the one blocking, so if he is succesfully blocked you can use his special ability. I've ruled it this way; it's been ruled that way for me at Natz before.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:59:43 AM »

That is true, I agree.

TimMierz · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:15:20 AM »

Sorry for being a broken record, but given the definition for harm/negative effect:

"A negative effect is any effect from cards not of the same alignment (i.e., good, evil, or neutral) targeting a character."

Can someone tell me how a Hero can ever harm a Hero?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:32:17 AM »

wow, by that definition, a hero could kill every hero in the game and it wouldn't be a harm? IMO, that needs to be changed.

frisian9 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:47:26 PM »

Did you ever step in gum and wonder if it would ever come off your shoe? I kinda feel like that right now.

Mike

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:03:34 PM »

What does that mean?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:27:13 PM »

Conversion is the most annoying thing ever, end of story.

frisian9 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:31:06 PM »

I bet Tim Mierz and I have worked on this for 10 man-years. Every time we think it works, it doesn't. Tim, care to try and fix it with something brilliant? I know you can do it

Mike

TimMierz · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:52:50 PM »

I thought we just about had a solution that had the "list of exceptions," but I guess nothing ever came of that?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:54:23 PM »

YMT wants to see the "list."

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:58:54 PM »

I think I remember you guys discussing the list. I agree, it's probably the best (read: only) solution.

TimMierz · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2009, 07:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Janissary on February 22, 2009, 06:58:54 PM

I think I remember you guys discussing the list. I agree, it's probably the best (read only) solution.

Why, is there a better write-only solution?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2009, 07:05:48 PM »

I don't know. I've been partial to typed myself.

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Author Topic: Converted Evil Character (Read 8097 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo