Author Topic: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning (Read 2036 times)

Eragon5 · « **on:** March 02, 2015, 10:13:02 AM »

If player 1 makes a rescue attempt with Zaccheus, a N.T. hero, and player 2 blocks with King of Tyrus (KofT) (Special Ability: Negate special abilities on characters/enhancements) and player one plays Fall like lightning (Special Ability: interrupt the battle and discard a demon, cannot be prevented if used by a N.T. hero) would KofT be able to negate it. The reason I ask is since the battle has been interrupted KofT ongoing negate enhancements ability is currently interrupted. Special initiative shifts to KofT, but when it does is it done under the interrupt and thus his negate the last good enhancement card will not be negated by his own special ability. Or in contrast has his ability reactivated and thus will he not be able to negate Fall like Lightning (unless he has some way to negate it that cannot be prevented).
I believe that covers my question, if it doesn't make sense, let me know.

Minion of Jesus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2015, 10:44:21 AM »

If the card King of Tyrus plays cannot be negated or prevented then you could play it.

Eragon5 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2015, 11:02:08 AM »

So, what if you have something like evil strength (Negate and discard the last good enhancement), but no negate enhancements that cannot be prevented? Would his own ability make it impossible for him to negate Fall like Lightning?

Red Wing · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2015, 11:03:12 AM »

Quote from: Eragon5 on March 02, 2015, 11:02:08 AM

So, what if you have something like evil strength (Negate and discard the last good enhancement), but no negate enhancements that cannot be prevented? Would his own ability make it impossible for him to negate Fall like Lightning?

Correct.

Eragon5 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2015, 11:08:23 AM »

Ok, Thanks!

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2015, 03:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Red Wing on March 02, 2015, 11:03:12 AM

Quote from: Eragon5 on March 02, 2015, 11:02:08 AM
So, what if you have something like evil strength (Negate and discard the last good enhancement), but no negate enhancements that cannot be prevented? Would his own ability make it impossible for him to negate Fall like Lightning?
Correct.

I'm not so sure about this, since KoT's ability is still being interrupted and therefore inactive until Fall like Lightning is finished resolving, which isn't until after the player controlling KoT has finished with Special Initiative. Now after the fact we'd have to deal with KoT's ability reactivating, which will make much of the non CBP negates meaningless, but if you had something like Evil Armor and with that you played Worshipping Demons that should work fine.

Paraphrased (but accurate for my purposes)
Evil Armor: Interrupt the battle, reveal the bottom card of your deck, if it's evil add it to your hand, you may play the next enhancement.
Worshipping Demons: Something about idols. End the Battle. Cannot be Negated.

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:10:33 PM »

ChristianSoldier is correct. While KoT is being interrupted you can play non-CBP/N cards. The caveat being anything non-CBI/N is going to be negated when he kicks back in (unless you play something like an EtB card as CS pointed out).

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:30:52 PM »

Quote from: ChristianSoldier on March 02, 2015, 03:05:16 PM

Quote from: Red Wing on March 02, 2015, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: Eragon5 on March 02, 2015, 11:02:08 AM
So, what if you have something like evil strength (Negate and discard the last good enhancement), but no negate enhancements that cannot be prevented? Would his own ability make it impossible for him to negate Fall like Lightning?
Correct.

I'm not so sure about this, since KoT's ability is still being interrupted and therefore inactive until Fall like Lightning is finished resolving, which isn't until after the player controlling KoT has finished with Special Initiative. Now after the fact we'd have to deal with KoT's ability reactivating, which will make much of the non CBP negates meaningless, but if you had something like Evil Armor and with that you played Worshipping Demons that should work fine.

Paraphrased (but accurate for my purposes)
Evil Armor: Interrupt the battle, reveal the bottom card of your deck, if it's evil add it to your hand, you may play the next enhancement.
Worshipping Demons: Something about idols. End the Battle. Cannot be Negated.

I am assuming CS answer is based off of Interrupt the battle "interrupts the last card played" and not just the "last enhancement card played? " (correct this if I am wrong)

In my opinion I am not really sure what "interrupt the battle" truly does only because on the rulings on the board (link below) it is still an unresolved question to whether "interrupt the battle " interrupts last enhancement or card played by an opponent.

In one section of the REG it says "last card" but then in another it says "last enhancement card"

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/rulings-board-posting-rules-references-new-rules-and-faq/

(scroll to the very bottom of that page in the link)

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:40:41 PM »

In this case that part doesn't matter because "interrupt the battle" interrupts ongoing abilities (which KoT's negate falls under).

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:49:11 PM »

Quote from: browarod on March 02, 2015, 04:40:41 PM

In this case that part doesn't matter because "interrupt the battle" interrupts ongoing abilities (which KoT's negate falls under).

I might be forgetting something but:

Kot SA is ongoing? (the Negate part?) I thought negate was an instant ability?? according to the REG under the "instant abilities"

unless you mean the nature of the negate has an ongoing condition??

Can anyone explain how it is ongoing?

browarod · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:53:54 PM »

King of Tyrus is a "negate all" ability. He instantly negates any characters or enhancements used before he enters battle (other than CBI/N abilities) and has an ongoing prevent of all characters and enhancements used after he enters (except CBP/N abilities).

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:56:40 PM »

Quote from: browarod on March 02, 2015, 04:53:54 PM

King of Tyrus is a "negate all" ability. He instantly negates any characters or enhancements used before he enters battle (other than CBI/N abilities) and has an ongoing prevent of all characters and enhancements used after he enters (except CBP/N abilities).

Okay I get it now. thanks

Redoubter · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:58:15 PM »

Negates become a prevent, as per the definition in the REG, and that is ongoing.

Interrupts are instant, and temporarily undo something.
Prevents are ongoing, and stop things from activating going forward.
Negate basically does both, so it is actually instant and ongoing at the same time.

On whether the REG entry refers to 'last card' or 'last enhancement' if played by an opponent, it still interrupts anything that qualifies for a different entry on the list, but based on other rulings, that should be "card" in all instances of the REG.

Eragon5 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2015, 10:40:34 AM »

Thank you all for the help, from what I've seen you can negate Fall like Lightning under the interrupt, with a possible problem being King of Tyrus' ability reactivating. However, if it reactivates it will negate both your negate and Fall like Lightning making it an effective negate. Unless what was meant was only his prevent aspect of negate reactivates which would still be an effective negate since the negate of Fall like Lightning has already happened. Either way playing a negate enhancement should save King of Tyrus, if I'm interpreting this correctly.
Am I right?
Thanks everyone for all your feedback.

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Author Topic: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning (Read 2036 times)

Eragon5

King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

Minion of Jesus

Re: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

Eragon5

Re: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

Red Wing

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Eragon5

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ChristianSoldier

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browarod

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redemption collector 777

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browarod

Re: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

redemption collector 777

Re: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

browarod

Re: King of Tyrus/Fall like Lightning

redemption collector 777

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Redoubter

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Eragon5

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