Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Praeceps on September 11, 2015, 03:59:19 PM
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If I play Evil Spirit (Ki) to convert Moses, after the battle when he returns to a Hero, would he be able to negate characters and enhancements still?
Evil Spirit - Convert any O.T. human Hero to an Evil Character for remainder of battle. Cannot be negated unless David's Harp is activated.
Default Conditions
Special abilities on Heroes (and good weapons) that have been converted to Evil Characters (and evil weapons)
can never activate.
I ask because while he didn't stay an Evil Character, he was converted at one point.
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Converting Moses doesn't negate his ability if it was already active. The quoted portion of the REG means that the ability won't activate at a time it would normally activate.
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I think he means does moses lose his ability permanently since he was converted.
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No, he doesn't. When he converts back to a Hero his ability works again the next time he enters battle.
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Is that because it was a temporary conversion, or is that how converting twice works? I thought I'd read somewhere that EC to Hero to EC resulted in an EC with no SA, but could be mistaken or it could be an old ruling.
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Is that because it was a temporary conversion, or is that how converting twice works? I thought I'd read somewhere that EC to Hero to EC resulted in an EC with no SA, but could be mistaken or it could be an old ruling.
I believe that's how it's worked for as long as we've had the rule that Hero abilities do not convert to Evil Characters. The ability remains, it just doesn't activate when the conversion is from Hero > Evil Character. The rules of converting from Evil Character > Hero will still apply if it's converted a second time (back to a Hero) so there might be instances where it doesn't convert.
Special abilities on Evil Characters (and evil weapons) that have been converted to Heroes (and good weapons)
may activate, except for special abilities that specifically target Heroes when the card is at face value.
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I'm not so sure about that, I've seen it ruled the other way in theory (mostly hypotheticals involving Paul if I remember the examples given correctly). I would think that it would probably make sense to have them 'restored' but I'm not sure it is as cut-and-dry in the rules and could use clarification.
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I know in the past the characters were considered to have a special ability but that it is unable to activate if it doesn't meet the converting requirements (for purposes of things like Windows of Narrow Light that check for special abilities) so I could see the argument that a Hero converted to an EC and then to a Hero again has their special ability work again (if it meets the EC conversion requirements) but I can also see the argument for it not.
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My point is that the rules say that the ability on a hero that has been converted to an evil character can never activate. It doesn't say "can never activate while an Evil Character", it is quite simply " can never activate". There's nothing in the rest of the convert section that would allow the hero's ability to work if it was restored to a hero.
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I don't think it's that simple, because the rules for EC>Hero conversion then say that certain abilities convert and others don't and that could very easily override whatever the current status of the Hero-converted-to-an-EC is.
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It may also matter that Evil Spirit isn't 2 converts, it's a convert and a reset (more or less).
It doesn't say "can never activate while an Evil Character", it is quite simply " can never activate". There's nothing in the rest of the convert section that would allow the hero's ability to work if it was restored to a hero.
I don't think that's the intent of the section - maybe it's incomplete, depending on the outcome of this discussion.