Author Topic: Consuming Fire vs Creeping Deciever (Read 4153 times)

CountFount · « **on:** July 12, 2011, 02:17:51 PM »

Consuming Fire
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 1 / 1 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Select an evil brigade (or two if you have a good Judge in play). Prevent special abilities on characters and weapons of selected brigades this turn. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Judges 6:21 •

Creeping Deceiver
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 1 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect up to 3 N.T. Lost Souls in Sites from rescue. May band to a heretic or N.T. female Evil Character. Cannot be negated by a character. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Human • Verse: II Timothy 3:6-8 •

IF CF is played in Territory before Battle Phase, does it prevent CD's ability?

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:22:23 PM »

I have asked this question over pm. The Elders who responded, save one, said that consuming fire does not negate creeper because the only way to activate and enhancement is through a character. Since its activated through the character it is considered to be used by the character.

Quote from: Gabe on May 18, 2011, 07:44:44 PM

CD cannot be negated by a character. Enhancements only work with (or through) a character. So an enhancement used by a character will not be able to negate CD, whether it's territory class or otherwise.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 16, 2011, 08:29:11 PM

I would most definitely say that it's still being used by the Hero. If you play a Capture via High Places on a Human EC, the Captured Hero still goes to Raider's Camp.

CountFount · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:24:11 PM »

Do we have to accept their logic? What does Que say?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:25:54 PM »

I must admit that I do not understand that ruling at all. Creeping Deceiver is being prevented by an enhancement ability, not a character ability.

CountFount · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:28:38 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 12, 2011, 02:25:54 PM

I must admit that I do not understand that ruling at all. Creeping Deceiver is being prevented by an enhancement ability, not a character ability.

I like your math. Now wait for it......

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:37:47 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on July 12, 2011, 02:22:23 PM

The Elders who responded, save one, ...

What did the dissenter have to say? I think all of them should be quoted, not just the ones you agree with. Also, is Polarius now an Elder? If he is, then that's great since he deserves it, but I did not hear about his induction.

Quote from: Gabe on May 18, 2011, 07:44:44 PM

CD cannot be negated by a character. Enhancements only work with (or through) a character. So an enhancement used by a character will not be able to negate CD, whether it's territory class or otherwise.

So if I activate a red set-aside enhancement on a red hero, but set aside a green hero, which one (or do both) played the enhancement?

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 16, 2011, 08:29:11 PM

I would most definitely say that it's still being used by the Hero. If you play a Capture via High Places on a Human EC, the Captured Hero still goes to Raider's Camp.

Is this really true?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:46:22 PM »

Wait a minute, did you say those were PMs? They are dated from back in May.

I know that this a different can of worms, but having players use only PMs to gain Rulings that they intend to later use at tournaments is what causes major problems for the hosts of those tournaments. It is not fair to all the others players who were not aware of that ruling either.

CountFount · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:04:57 PM »

The silence from the other side is deafening. Amen and Amen to YMT

Arch Angel · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:21:56 PM »

... "silence" from the "other side"? O_o I'm not sure what you mean by other side, but it's been like... an hour since you posted this question. Actually allowing people time to respond might be a good idea.

As far as I know it's been routinely ruled that enhancements are used by characters, and thus enhancements cannot negate CD's ability.

CountFount · « **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:27:42 PM »

Quote from: Arch Angel on July 12, 2011, 03:21:56 PM

... "silence" from the "other side"? O_o I'm not sure what you mean by other side, but it's been like... an hour since you posted this question. Actually allowing people time to respond might be a good idea.

As far as I know it's been routinely ruled that enhancements are used by characters, and thus enhancements cannot negate CD's ability.

Patience is my middle name. I wanna hear from that Fuzzy Face New Papa.

Gabe · « **Reply #10 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:31:12 PM »

Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 03:27:42 PM

Patience is my middle name. I wanna hear from that Fuzzy Face New Papa.

Quote from: Gabe on May 18, 2011, 07:44:44 PM

CD cannot be negated by a character. Enhancements only work with (or through) a character. So an enhancement used by a character will not be able to negate CD, whether it's territory class or otherwise.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM »

Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 02:24:11 PM

Do we have to accept their logic?

Yes, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 12, 2011, 02:37:47 PM

Also, is Polarius now an Elder? If he is, then that's great since he deserves it, but I did not hear about his induction.
Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 16, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
I would most definitely say that it's still being used by the Hero. If you play a Capture via High Places on a Human EC, the Captured Hero still goes to Raider's Camp.
Is this really true?

Pol is not yet an Elder, however he is a REP (Real Experienced Player) and is usually right on ruling questions. This is an example of that as he is correct that a EC who plays a capture card via High Places would still put them into Raider's Camp (if it were in play).

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 12, 2011, 02:46:22 PM

having players use only PMs to gain Rulings that they intend to later use at tournaments is what causes major problems for the hosts of those tournaments. It is not fair to all the others players who were not aware of that ruling either.

I agree with YMT. That is not the best way to get rulings. If you want to know a ruling on something, the best thing to do is to ask on the boards. I know that sacrifices some secrecy of totally broken combo ideas, but it is the fairest way to do things for hosts and other players.

As for the original question, CD falls into the same category as Thad regarding whether enhancements played count as part of the character or not. Therefore don't expect a definite ruling until we figure Thad out. However, at this point, it is looking like CD could NOT be negated by an enhancement played by a character.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:50:09 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM

As for the original question, CD falls into the same category as Thad regarding whether enhancements played count as part of the character or not. Therefore don't expect a definite ruling until we figure Thad out. However, at this point, it is looking like CD could NOT be negated by an enhancement played by a character.

Southeast Regionals in three days.... any hope of a decision before then?

Gabe · « **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:56:19 PM »

Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 03:34:33 PM

That is a very weak response. No Ninja threats? Come on. Am I going to have to put a bounty out on you at Nats? You could have at leasted posted the lastest Ninja's picture holding a Creeping D.

CountFount · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:58:57 PM »

That kid grew up fast. You better check out that milk man, I don't think he has your eyes.

Gabe · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:59:41 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 12, 2011, 03:50:09 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM
As for the original question, CD falls into the same category as Thad regarding whether enhancements played count as part of the character or not. Therefore don't expect a definite ruling until we figure Thad out. However, at this point, it is looking like CD could NOT be negated by an enhancement played by a character.

Southeast Regionals in three days.... any hope of a decision before then?

I'm sure Mark must be talking about a definite ruling for how we will treat this next season. For SE Regionals, Nationals and any other tournaments this season, Rob has stated in our discussion about this topic that it will be ruled that protection from a character includes enhancements used by that character.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:13:19 PM »

Oh, I see. I thought the whole "plays" thing was unresolved, and that only Thad protecting from numbers was official. At least I know how to rule for this weekend. Thanks.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:18:26 PM »

I am sorry for the confusion. I went to pm because it is a more direct aproach, I had a good idea what the ruling was going to be, and I didn't want a certain player to know

Also I didn't want to walk into nationals with 15 creeper decks starring me down, its sort of a weapon of mass destruction that should be kept hush hush

But people are right in saying that, in general, pm rulings are not the best aproach.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:21:30 PM »

So this means Creeper can't negate himself, correct?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:34:06 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 12, 2011, 04:21:30 PM

So this means Creeper can't negate himself, correct?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:02:32 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on July 12, 2011, 03:59:41 PM

I'm sure Mark must be talking about a definite ruling for how we will treat this next season. For SE Regionals, Nationals and any other tournaments this season, Rob has stated in our discussion about this topic that it will be ruled that protection from a character includes enhancements used by that character.

I'm not 100% confident of that being the current ruling because when Rob made that statement, there were extenuating circumstances that indicated that it wasn't a final ruling. However, since that time Rob has also indicated that he was about to rule in that direction.

So if I were judging at SE Regionals, then I would rule that CD cannot be negated by enhancements. However, I'm am only 95% sure that will be the ruling at Nats, and I am only 85% sure that will be the ruling after Nats.

STAMP · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:11:53 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM

Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
Do we have to accept their logic?
Yes, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

...or quit.

CountFount · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:13:17 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on July 12, 2011, 05:11:53 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
Do we have to accept their logic?
Yes, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

...or quit.

I don't like you guys enough to quit.

STAMP · « **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:20:51 PM »

Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 05:13:17 PM

Quote from: STAMP on July 12, 2011, 05:11:53 PM
Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 12, 2011, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: CountFount on July 12, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
Do we have to accept their logic?
Yes, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

...or quit.

I don't like you guys enough to quit.

I love them.

Smokey · « **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:21:45 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on July 12, 2011, 04:34:06 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 12, 2011, 04:21:30 PM
So this means Creeper can't negate himself, correct?

And I'm a monkey's fist, but why can he negate himself? Creepers aren't considered people? (characters)

News:

Author Topic: Consuming Fire vs Creeping Deciever (Read 4153 times)

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13