Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Another headache ...yikes...

•So I thought I had this whole FBN thing figured out.  You band in an FBN and the FBN interrupts everything that was done, including the banding, and prevents it.  That means your opponent could play Wrath of Satan against Job, you could use Coat of Many Colors followed by River Flowing From the Temple to get Moses out of your hand (see the thread "Moses Flies") and Moses would, upon activation of his ability, negate everything: Moses would fly back into your hand, all discarded heroes would return from the grave, and Job's ability would be kaput.

→So the question is this: does that work for anything else that works backward?

•Pale Green brigade has two cards that simply don't allow me the luxury of casual gameplay.  They are Consumed by Doubt and Disobedience.  These two negates are very special because, unlike other negates, they don't have to target the last enhancement played.  Or to put it another way, they can "go back in time," so to speak.  Some examples:
Example 1a:
♪You play Reach, draw three cards, and use Reach's ability to play AoC.
♪Your opponent plays Disobedience, but decides to target Reach instead.  You have to put the three cards back, (and if AoC is one of those, does it get put back?) and reach is negated, including the "play the next enhancement" part (meaning you wouldn't get to play AoC regardless, even if it was already in your hand) (so it would be taken back, right?), and long story short, you'd be back to square one.
Example 2a:
♫You send out Abishai (WA), band to Asahel (D) and Joab (U), and the opponent sends out Prince of this World (Pale Green).  The opponent, clearly having initiative, plays Consumed by Doubt on Abishai.  His ability is negated ...so Joab and Asahel get sent back to their territories, and Abishai is doomed.

→Therefore, would negate be essentially going back in time to undo all that was done through special abilities?  I mean, that is my understanding of it, but then what about these situations (which are my questions):
Example 1b:
♪If I play Coat of Many Colors on, say, Lot, then follow it up with Reach, The Seventh Trumpet, Words, and The Second Seal, and the opponent, using one of their Pale Green evil characters brought into battle by Second Seal, plays Disobedience and targets Coat of Many Colors...
♪Would all the enhancements played via Coat of Many Colors be negated?  Would those evil characters (including the one that played that card) be taken back to their territories, 6 cards returned to deck and one converted evil character unconverted (I guess it was just a passing fad)?  If so, Disobedience has kicks.
Example 2b:
♫Job goes against Simon the Magician, Simon plays Wrath of Satan, Job isn't discarded, but then Simon plays Love of Money (how fitting) and follows it up with Consumed by Doubt, placed on Job.  Job's ability (immunity) is negated, so does that mean Job is now discarded by the Wrath of Satan that was already played?
♫On a somewhat related note, what if the bearer of the Consumed by Doubt (played by Simon) was the Strong Angel?  SA's special ability would be negated, but if SA won and went into battle against, say, another evil character, would the Consumed still on him still negate his ability?  (If anyone needs me to rephrase that, I will.)

Thanks for the wisdom,
Ian Vroon

So does that mean negating Coat of Many Colors will not negate the cards played (like Reach?)
And does that mean negating Reach will not unplay the card Reach was used to play?
And what about the Job scenario?  Is he discarded?

I still need answers...

Also on the Reach question: play next is CBI

The ability to play a card is CBI. Searching is not CBI by nature.

You'd think so, but every ruling I can remember is that negating the drawing of a played card will negate the effect of the card and put it back in deck unless the card itself is CBN/I. It may be inconsistent, but I believe that's the ruling currently. The wording on the rule should be "the ability to play a card cannot be directly Negated."

Ex 1: Reach's ability is CBI if another enhancement has been played. The draw and playing cannot be undone.

Ex 2: Yes. Banding can be undone.

Ex 1 again: No.

Reach's ability is CBI if another enhancement has been played. The draw and playing cannot be undone.

Ex 1a again again:
1. Wrath of Satan is an instant ability, it cannot be "redone". The nuclear shock wave had passed before the bunker was blown up by knife-wielding turtles.
2. Jobs ability isn't immunity, but protect.
3. Who would play Wrath against a protected character?

Ex 1b again again: Yes? I'm not very sure on this one.

Protect is immunity.

NOOOOOOO! PROTECT IS PROTECT AND IMMUNITY IS IMMUNITY!!!
Seriously though.
Protect is not immunity.

→What is the difference between Protect and Immune?
→And I'm still very confused on this Disobedient Reach Dealio.
→Plus, it turns out I still need the Consumed on SA question answered.

I have looked all across the forums and, as someone pointed out, the current rules seem to be contradicted by certain rulings.  I have no idea how to play this or how it works.

Grazie,
Ian

Thanks for the clarification on that!  So...

Reach's ability is CBI if another enhancement has been played. The draw and playing cannot be undone.

Where is that quote from?

And where was the SA (Strong Angel) Consumed by Doubt question answered and explained?  I just checked over the thread...

Thanks,
IV

Your questions were extremely long and wordy and usually included like 5 other questions. Could you restate the specific questions you want answered?

You know, if you and YMT are fed up with my wordy questions, you could always just let others answer them ...or you could teach me how to be less wordy.  Ironically, the whole point of that is to allay confusion.

So here's a simple restatement of the Strong Angel Consumed by Doubt question:

→Say Esau with Tower goes up against Strong Angel and interrupts Strong Angel's ability.  Then Esau plays Consumed by Doubt on Strong Angel.  SA proceeds to beat the tar out of Esau, and the rescue is successful.
→Next, Strong Angel goes on another rescue attempt.  Does Consumed by Doubt negate SA's ability, or does SA's ability negate Consumed's ability first?

God bless,
Ian Vroon

Consumed by Doubts will Negate TSA because it was active first. When you have conflicting abilities (TSA trying to negate CbD and CbD trying to Negate TSA at the same time) you go with which one was active first. CBD had been active for a few phases already, and TSA is just then trying to activate.

As a lesson on being less wordy, phrasing the question so:

"If Consumed by Doubts is on TSA, which takes precedence when TSA enters battle?"

Would have conveyed just as much as what you said, and been much more clear.