Author Topic: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?  (Read 973 times)

browarod

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Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« on: June 30, 2011, 09:30:54 AM »
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I was writing up the part on instead for my Cheat Sheet, and I began to wonder something that I couldn't figure out.

Do instead abilities physically change the special ability of the card they instead, or is it still considered a separate ability? For example, does Herod's Temple physically reword Christian Martyr to "Opponent must discard a card from hand matching the brigade of target hero they own and control in play and must discard the top X cards of deck" or does Christian Martyr's ability remain unchanged and Herod's Temple insert itself in place of CM?

Implications of this include protections/prevents like Jerusalem Tower, etc. If it physically changed CM, then CM would be making the opponent discard from their hand/deck which several cards don't allow, so then would that player be unable to use HT's instead?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 10:43:27 AM by browarod »

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 11:03:19 PM »
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Do instead abilities physically change the special ability of the card they instead, or is it still considered a separate ability?
I don't know that we've really talked about this at the metaphysical level :)  However, I think that "instead" is still considered a separate ability.

Implications of this include protections/prevents like Jerusalem Tower, etc. If it physically changed CM, then CM would be making the opponent discard from their hand/deck which several cards don't allow, so then would that player be unable to use HT's instead?
I would rule that if you had J-Tower in your territory, that it would NOT prevent you from using Herod's Temple.

The Schaef

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Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 11:17:51 PM »
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They should still be treated as separate, because here is how "instead" is used:
- assume ability says, "if A, then B instead"
- if you are protected from A then B does not happen to you either
- if you are protected from B, the ability defaults back to A

Offline Bryon

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Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 11:56:07 PM »
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I agree with Prof and Schaef.  Instead does not change the wording on the cards whose ability is insteaded.  MY Herod's Temple is what allows me to discard the top X cards of my deck.  My opponent isn't doing the discard from deck.  I am, because it is my Herod's Temple.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 12:03:11 AM »
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I agree with the Global Moderators and the Administrator. Just in case you weren't still sure about these high ranking people on the boards' opinions.  ;)

browarod

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Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2011, 12:10:33 AM »
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Thanks everyone, that's exactly what I was looking for. ^_^

 


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