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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: browarod on June 30, 2011, 09:30:54 AM

Title: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: browarod on June 30, 2011, 09:30:54 AM
I was writing up the part on instead for my Cheat Sheet, and I began to wonder something that I couldn't figure out.

Do instead abilities physically change the special ability of the card they instead, or is it still considered a separate ability? For example, does Herod's Temple physically reword Christian Martyr to "Opponent must discard a card from hand matching the brigade of target hero they own and control in play and must discard the top X cards of deck" or does Christian Martyr's ability remain unchanged and Herod's Temple insert itself in place of CM?

Implications of this include protections/prevents like Jerusalem Tower, etc. If it physically changed CM, then CM would be making the opponent discard from their hand/deck which several cards don't allow, so then would that player be unable to use HT's instead?
Title: Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: Prof Underwood on June 30, 2011, 11:03:19 PM
Do instead abilities physically change the special ability of the card they instead, or is it still considered a separate ability?
I don't know that we've really talked about this at the metaphysical level :)  However, I think that "instead" is still considered a separate ability.

Implications of this include protections/prevents like Jerusalem Tower, etc. If it physically changed CM, then CM would be making the opponent discard from their hand/deck which several cards don't allow, so then would that player be unable to use HT's instead?
I would rule that if you had J-Tower in your territory, that it would NOT prevent you from using Herod's Temple.
Title: Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: The Schaef on June 30, 2011, 11:17:51 PM
They should still be treated as separate, because here is how "instead" is used:
- assume ability says, "if A, then B instead"
- if you are protected from A then B does not happen to you either
- if you are protected from B, the ability defaults back to A
Title: Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: Bryon on June 30, 2011, 11:56:07 PM
I agree with Prof and Schaef.  Instead does not change the wording on the cards whose ability is insteaded.  MY Herod's Temple is what allows me to discard the top X cards of my deck.  My opponent isn't doing the discard from deck.  I am, because it is my Herod's Temple.
Title: Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: TheJaylor on July 01, 2011, 12:03:11 AM
I agree with the Global Moderators and the Administrator. Just in case you weren't still sure about these high ranking people on the boards' opinions.  ;)
Title: Re: Instead - Physical or Metaphysical?
Post by: browarod on July 01, 2011, 12:10:33 AM
Thanks everyone, that's exactly what I was looking for. ^_^
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