Cactus Game Design Message Boards

This is why MtG created "the Stack" back in '94 to get rid of the interrupt system.

Any update from the elders, it was mentioned they are discussing this.

There are two solid ways of looking at this issue and the elders discussed both.  We ended up taking a narrow understanding of "special initiative" to only allow the last character removed from a battle to be able to negate what removed them even though normally the character (and possibly what removed them) would no longer be in play.

This means that "special initiative" would NOT interrupt cards that have already been played.  So if a chain of cards removes the last character in battle at some point in the chain, then the chain would still keep going until all those cards finished.  Then at that point the player whose character was removed would have an opportunity to play a negate (unless of course something was CBI or CBN).

I preferred the old system better. It made sense to me more.

Perhaps I didn't explain clearly enough.  This is the way we've always played it Wyatt

I preferred the old system better. It made sense to me more.

Usually a statement like this refers to Facebook!

Just for clarity (since the Nebby/horse combo is big in my deck):

If I block with nebby with horses, I use Nebby’s special to play, let’s say, Head Of Gold.  One of the choices I chose is the rescuing hero.  I then use the horses to draw two and then play an end of battle enhancement.  Does that mean that they are never allowed to interrupt HOG because of the end the battle enhancement?

Also, can I play two capture cards against the same hero (e.g. the above situation but the second enhancement would be carried into exile or another HOG (T2 FTW))?

I do not think that they would be able to stop you if you use an end the battle enhancement(AKA Belshazzar's Banquet) after head of gold.
as for capturing the character twice, I guess you can, but not really a point with it is there? it is one less person that you capture with one of your top battle winners in your deck. if no more heroes, capture some ecs.

The point would be that it will stop all negate one evil enhancement since if they stopped one, the other would get them.

Would the capture even take effect if you end the battle? Horses interrupts the capture and you end the battle. Wouldn't it be as if you never played the capture?

However I do NOT think you could target a removed hero to remove them from battle AGAIN.  From your perspective, that card is already removed from battle.  It is only your opponent who has "special initiative" and can therefore still play a negate on their "removed" character.  Since you don't have "special initiative", you can't target their player with an additional capture, etc.

The real question is this:  How can I target a character at each step, and what happens during a chain of events?  I agree with your perspective on not being able to target again for an ability targeting a character in battle, but does that mean that you can target them as their eventual card type?

For example: King Belshazzar with Swift Horses blocks, D2, and plays Head of Gold in such a way that it would create special initiative by removing the last or all heroes from the battle.  Now he bands to Babylonian Soldiers, who target the (or one of the) hero from battle for removal from the game.  None of this is CBI/CBN, so SI is granted.  Does the rescuing player have to negate/interrupt Head of Gold or Soldiers, and if he negates Head of Gold, can Soldiers retarget since it 'was not' a legal target by the time the ability completed (due to SI's insertion)?

My thought would be that you can indeed target the to-be-captured hero with Babylonian Soldiers (fitting with the Herod Agrippa II ruling that withdraws become CBN captures without SI, since that triggers before SI would be granted), that Head of Gold would need to be negated because it caused the removal from battle (which is key for SI), and that Soldiers would not be able to retarget, as instant abilities cannot change targets (and therefore the draw/negate+discard-artifact and increase all cascade away off the negation of the original capture).

Really, this is the question I think is being brought out:  What else can you do before SI is attempted, and how are cards targeted in the meantime?

My understanding is that if you play Head of Gold to capture all of the heroes in battle, then from your perspective they are captured, and therefore Babylonian Soldiers can target one of them to remove them from the game.  However after this is all done, then your opponent will have special initiative to negate that Head of Gold.  If he negates the capture, then that would also undo the removal (because it was based on something that never happened).  So if you're doing the removing with BS, then you have to choose whether to risk using your ability on something that might get negated, or on a different captured character from earlier in the game.

So in general, from the perspective of the chain of events, everything happens like normal.  But then from the perspective of your opponent who gains special initiative, they still have a chance to undo anything that wasn't CBI or CBN.

I agree with Prof U's understanding.

Cascading negates seem aweful for the game.

We've always had cascading negates.  Imagine I attack with a hero who bands to another hero that draws a card.  If you block and negate the band, then I have to put the card that I drew from the 2nd hero back on top of my deck.  This is really just the same kind of thing.

And this is the best way to maintain the gamerule that cards which are already played have to complete before other cards can be played.