Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I play a card that Discards an N.T. blocker when my opponent has no souls available. He could use H.T. but very specifically states he is choosing not to use it. If I then do something to make a LS available, can he change his mind and use HT after all?

Yes, i can see that happening in tournaments... but what about in casual play? Do you guys still believe that you should make  them keep their choice or let it slide? And if so, where do you draw the line? How many mistakes should you be able to take back?

No, you must instead the ability or allow it to complete. Once your choice has been made it's over. Especially after another card is played.

Are you sure about this?  It seems similar to when someone makes a battle challenge with a hero and their opponent chooses NOT to block.  Then they play Mayhem and some LSs come out turning it into a rescue attempt.  The traditional ruling has been that when a battle challenge turns into a rescue attempt that you DO get to rechoose whether to block.

Isn't this similar?  If the Mayhem turns the battle challenge into a rescue attempt, shouldn't you be able to rechoose whether to instead the discard and simply give away a free LS?

If HT is Herod's Temple (which is what I'm assuming), no, you can't change your mind, since, as Gabe said, abilities must complete, and you can't go back. If it's Herod's Treachery (which is what I first thought...), then yes, you can.

Yes, i can see that happening in tournaments... but what about in casual play? Do you guys still believe that you should make  them keep their choice or let it slide? And if so, where do you draw the line? How many mistakes should you be able to take back?

In casual play you can do whatever you want. Given Pol's example, I still wouldn't allow my opponent to take it back unless it was a "teaching" game where the purpose was to help the other player learn game mechanics or higher level strategy.

The reason I wouldn't let them take it back is this: It's part of what makes this a strategy game. The cards in my hand are hidden. They made their choice hoping I don't have a way to generate a Lost Soul. If they had known before hand that I could generate a LS, of course they would have fought harder and tried to save their EC!

Quote from: Gabe on January 19, 2012, 01:33:39 AM

No, you must instead the ability or allow it to complete. Once your choice has been made it's over. Especially after another card is played.

Are you sure about this?

Yes, I'm 100% certain. The good Professor has already explained why.

Isn't this similar?  If the Mayhem turns the battle challenge into a rescue attempt, shouldn't you be able to rechoose whether to instead the discard and simply give away a free LS?

That's the exact same example that Pol gave so the answer is still no. You get to choose once whether or not you want to use a special ability - at the time it activates (or it's trigger is met). I cannot think of any circumstance that would allow you to "rechoose" after another ability has completed, even if something like Mayhem or Harvest Time has turned a RA into a BC. When that happens, if you have not yet blocked, of course you're allowed to add a blocker to the battle. But that's not even remotely the same thing, nor what Pol stated in his original question.

But I am aghast at how once again grace is slipping away from most of the responses I read.   

Would you care to elaborate? Are you referring to the tone of the posts (in which I don't see any negativity, merely explanation) or to the idea that people wouldn't allow their opponents to change their mind in this situation?

I'm sure those posting would endeavor to be more graceful if they knew they were being perceived as ungracious.

Quote from: STAMP on January 19, 2012, 12:15:17 PM

But I am aghast at how once again grace is slipping away from most of the responses I read.   

Would you care to elaborate? Are you referring to the tone of the posts (in which I don't see any negativity, merely explanation) or to the idea that people wouldn't allow their opponents to change their mind in this situation?

I'm sure those posting would endeavor to be more graceful if they knew they were being perceived as ungracious.

I didn't say there was negativity.  But setting conditions on when to extend grace?  Maybe.

I didn't say there was negativity.  But setting conditions on when to extend grace?  Maybe.

While the primary function of Redemption is intended to be (and IMO typically is) fun and fellowship, there is also a spirit of competition that can be healthy if expressed right, and relies on strict application of the rules. If you allow your opponent to correct every mistake they make, then they are less likely to improve their game and the amount of strategery they employ. If you gave your opponent ample opportunity before you attacked to DoN your Hidden Treasures, but they chose not to but realized their mistake when you attacked with a Prophet and played ANB, would you extend grace there? 

I usually let people take back mistakes that haven't gone too far, even in tournaments, because a game doesn't feel as wholesome if I didn't play that persons deck at its highest potential just because I sharked him. The only people I shark are people that I know will shark me.

STAMP, I agree with what you said a while back, that "If [Redemption] becomes just a game, it will die" (rough paraphrase?). Now that said, Redemption is a game, and a competition. In casual play, especially on RTS, I tend to let my opponents take something back if they ask to, though I very, very rarely take anything back myself. In tournaments of any stripe, I'm a strong believer that actions have consequences, and such, I do not allow people to take back mistakes, and I never take back my own. No quarter asked, and none given, as it were. I don't think this makes me a bad person, simply because I value fairness in these games, even if it requires a strict adherence to the rules.

Fairness is a very admirable quality.  I commend you on your perserverence. 

I value grace and mercy above all else, regardless of the life circumstances.   

Neither one of us is wrong...just different. 

Exactly. I have a more competitive personality, so that naturally reflects when I play a competitive card game; though I do my best to avoid letting that prevent me from being a good sportsman.

Quote

I value grace and mercy above all else, regardless of the life circumstances.

Your values were probably tested severely when thinking about a certain punt returner in the past few days I imagine...

Kirk

You have NO idea!   

Just tell me how many pushups.