Author Topic: Changes to Decrease Rules (Read 7167 times)

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #50 on:** October 22, 2011, 08:14:35 PM »

This came up in a game this week again... Since I don't see anywhere that it has been ruled decisively, do enhancements on characters count toward their numbers for the decrease abilities?

lightningninja · « **Reply #51 on:** October 22, 2011, 08:37:56 PM »

No they do not Ken. But permanent increases do, like Meditation.

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #52 on:** October 22, 2011, 09:21:07 PM »

I fully support that ruling.

If anyone else could confirm it, simply due to the uncertainty earlier in the thread, that would be great!

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #53 on:** October 23, 2011, 09:15:45 AM »

My understanding is that numbers from enhancements do NOT count toward the character's stats for either ignoring (ie. defending against Zeb) or protecting from discard due to decrease.

So a 5/5 EC who had played a 2/2 EE would NOT be ignored by Zebulun if his owner had 6 cards in hand. Similarly, a 5/5 GC who had played a 2/2 GE WOULD STILL be discarded if the defender played Hunger to decrease him 6/6.

Bryon · « **Reply #54 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:04:19 AM »

I agree with Prof Underwood and lightningninja

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #55 on:** October 23, 2011, 12:12:28 PM »

Thank you!

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #56 on:** October 24, 2011, 09:48:25 PM »

however it makes a good argument that enhancements should count toward characters stats. I mean whats an enhancement for anyways if not to enhance the character?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #57 on:** October 24, 2011, 09:50:14 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 24, 2011, 09:48:25 PM

however it makes a good argument that enhancements should count toward characters stats. I mean whats an enhancement for anyways if not to enhance the character?

The way I see if, if I have a 12/12 hero and a 1/1 hero banded together in battle, my TOTAL number is 13/13.

Opponent plays Hunger, I'm now 6/6 and -5/-5, so my total number is still 1/1, but that doesn't stop my small hero from dying.

DDiceRC · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2011, 06:21:35 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on October 24, 2011, 09:50:14 PM

Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 24, 2011, 09:48:25 PM
however it makes a good argument that enhancements should count toward characters stats. I mean whats an enhancement for anyways if not to enhance the character?

The way I see if, if I have a 12/12 hero and a 1/1 hero banded together in battle, my TOTAL number is 13/13.

Opponent plays Hunger, I'm now 6/6 and -5/-5, so my total number is still 1/1, but that doesn't stop my small hero from dying.

But if you immediately discard your "dead" hero, under the new rule you'd be 6/6 instead of 1/1, since your -5/-5 hero is no longer in battle.

browarod · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2011, 06:24:58 PM »

Quote from: DDiceRC on October 25, 2011, 06:21:35 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on October 24, 2011, 09:50:14 PM
Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 24, 2011, 09:48:25 PM
however it makes a good argument that enhancements should count toward characters stats. I mean whats an enhancement for anyways if not to enhance the character?

The way I see if, if I have a 12/12 hero and a 1/1 hero banded together in battle, my TOTAL number is 13/13.

Opponent plays Hunger, I'm now 6/6 and -5/-5, so my total number is still 1/1, but that doesn't stop my small hero from dying.

But if you immediately discard your "dead" hero, under the new rule you'd be 6/6 instead of 1/1, since your -5/-5 hero is no longer in battle.

....So? Initiative based on numbers is fluid, it changes often like anytime characters enter/leave battle and when numbers get increased/decreased (like with Hunger) as well as with general numbers calculated in from enhancement abilities.

DDiceRC · « **Reply #60 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:58:28 PM »

I'm not complaining. I think it's a neat little side effect that on some occasions losing your decreased character immediately could be more beneficial than keeping them in play.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #61 on:** December 01, 2011, 05:09:26 AM »

hate to dig up dirt and necropost but how does the new decrease ruling apply in the case of protect forts and ecs in territory.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #62 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:33:44 AM »

If something protects from discard, the protected item can't be discarded. For instance, Phars/Sadds can't die from CoT in territory with HPP in play. However, when they enter battle, they will die. However, if something only protects from discard abilities, then they can be discarded. (e.g. Abithar)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #63 on:** December 01, 2011, 02:19:47 PM »

adding on to that:

If it protects characters from opponents, they can't even be targeted for a decrease.

slugfencer · « **Reply #64 on:** December 07, 2011, 01:42:15 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 01, 2011, 09:33:44 AM

If something protects from discard, the protected item can't be discarded. For instance, Phars/Sadds can't die from CoT in territory with HPP in play. However, when they enter battle, they will die. However, if something only protects from discard abilities, then they can be discarded. (e.g. Abithar)

....So the pharisee with HPP in play and Crown o thorns in play is fine in territory and then 0/0 in battle--then is he Instantly discarded now in battle or is he waiting to die until end o battle phase?
Thanks!

SomeKittens · « **Reply #65 on:** December 07, 2011, 01:52:26 PM »

Instantly, however, his ability still activates.

STAMP · « **Reply #66 on:** December 07, 2011, 04:31:06 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 07, 2011, 01:52:26 PM

Instantly, however, his ability still activates.

Checking for numbers really should be added to the "Order of Abilities" documentation. It sounds like it should be at the end? Or after character abilities and before weapon, placed, band and CTB/CTR??

Quote from: Rule clarifications

CARDS WITH MULTIPLE SPECIAL ABILITIES

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.

Bryon · « **Reply #67 on:** December 09, 2011, 06:51:04 PM »

Or, do you check for 0 toughness after all abilities complete, just like how you wait to check initiative after all special abilities complete.

All abilities complete.
Discard all characters with zero toughness.
Initative check.

Does that work?

STAMP · « **Reply #68 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:40:08 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on December 09, 2011, 06:51:04 PM

Or, do you check for 0 toughness after all abilities complete, just like how you wait to check initiative after all special abilities complete.

All abilities complete.
Discard all characters with zero toughness.
Initative check.

Does that work?

Works for me and is what I'd prefer. Because the decrease rule is new, Kittens comment made me concerned.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #69 on:** December 10, 2011, 01:06:25 AM »

ok so if we go with byrons suggestion were saying gates of samaria does target

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Author Topic: Changes to Decrease Rules (Read 7167 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod

Lamborghini_diablo

slugfencer