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My opponent RA's with Phineas, I block with Fallen Warrior.  I play Bringing Fear, Overwhelmed by Philistines, he then responds with Zeal for the Lord.  What happens?


Overwhelmed by Philistines

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: used by a warrior class Philistine, discard all Heroes in battle. Cannot be negated if a purple Hero is in battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: I Samuel 31:6 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Bringing Fear

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a Philistine, negate all special abilities on characters and good Enhancements. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: I Samuel 17:11 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 6)

Fallen Warrior

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Fallen Warrior gains the cumulative abilities (*/*) of each Hero he successfully blocks. • Play As: Fallen Warrior gains the cumulative abilities (*/*) of each Hero he successfully blocks (stalemate or defeat). • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Philistia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Isaiah 9:5 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)

Phinehas, son of Eleazar

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: 12 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Protect this Hero from capture and conversion. Protect Heroes in your territory and set-aside area from discard abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Tabernacle High Priest (House of Eleazar) • Verse: Numbers 25:7 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)

Zeal for the Lord

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and discard two Evil Characters of different brigades. Cannot be negated if used by Phinehas, son of Eleazar. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Numbers 25:11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)

Overwhelmed by Philistines is CBN, so Zeal cannot interrupt it. Phineas Dies. you don't even need to play Bringing Fear. my answer to Overwhelmed by Philistines was Covenant with Phineas. I got confused somewhere on the other thread.
EDIT: oops, read Overwhelmed wrong. it is negatable... ok. sorry. got confused on this thread.

Ironica is right, except that BF only negates characters and GEs.

Result: Overwhelmed is interrupted by Zeal, and ECs are discarded.

Bringing Fear tries to negate abilities on characters and GE's.  It negates Fallen's ability, as well as Phinny's protection ability.  It doesn't negate EE's, so Overwhelmed works.  However, when Zeal is played on Phinny, it cannot be negated by Bringing Fear, so Zeal is able to interrupt Overwhelmed's ability and discard Fallen & another EC.

I read it as isn't. haha.

Why does Zeal's CBN status trump the CBN status of Bringing Fear?

@Ironica.  Bringing Fear doesn't negate evil enhs.  So...

Block with FW.  Bringing Fear (CBN) is played, good enhs (except CBN enhs) are negated.
Overwhelmed tries to d/c Phin.  Overwhelmed is NOT CBN because Phin =/= purple.
Zeal (CBN) is played, interrupts Overwhelmed, and FW is discarded.

So Zeal works and Hero wins the battle CBN.  Zeal doesn't need to interrupt Bringing Fear, it only interrupts Overwhelmed.  A CBN negate cannot negate a CBN ability.

Bringing Fear's ability is never negated.

look at it like this
A child is born (can't be negatved) vs Kot (negate all specail)= A child is born wins,

Overwhelmed can be negated or intrupted so trumpet beats overwhelmed.   then its CBN status via its sa, so it oevercomes bringing fear.   

actually, ACiB is cannot NOT be negated, so that's irrelevant.
and your example is flawed because KoT is not CBN.

Zeal's interrupt is not CBN.  Only the Discard is.

That is simply incorrect.  Zeal's entire ability is CBN.

I still Disagree.  You are indirectly negating the prevent portion of Bringing Fear.

No, you aren't.  Bringing Fear is a negate so it negates everything that isn't CBN.  Bringing Fear is CBN itself, but it doesn't matter at all in this example.  Zeal interrupts the battle.  Because Zeal is an interrupt & CBN, nothing except CBN protect/immune/ignore can stop it.

Zeal doesn't interrupt Bringing Fear, but it doesn't matter since Zeal's CBN > Fear's Negate.  Zeal then interrupts ObP and wins the battle.

It is an indirect negate, you would be interrupting the CBN prevent(even that makes no sense, you cannot interrupt a non interruptable ability), and Discarding the card it was playing making it like Bringing fear was never played(that's how interrupt and discard are played ie. Devourer).  You cannot negate a CBN.

i would like this post to end this thread.

You must not understand the honored tradition of forum debate...

Your thoughts are correct; it's what I have been saying.  However, it won't stop anything.

i would like this post to end this thread. i am giving the scenario, and having read this thread, the rulebook, (10th anniversary), and the exegetical guide, here is my thoughts. here is how this works. bringing fear can't stop zeal. bringing fear is not cuasing me to loose by removal. ovbp is. i interupt overwhelmed with zeal. (which the whole ability is cbn) you die and unless you do something w/ cm or unkown  nation, i win the lost soul. I AM NOT NEGATING BRINGING FEAR!!!!!!!!!!! I AM INTERUPTING OVERWHELMED. phinehas wins unless overwhelmed somehow becomes cbn.

This is wrong, it is an indirect negate.  For those of you who disagree what is your definition of indirect negate?  You are have to interrupt my prevent to interrupt Overwhelmed by Philistines.  You cannot interrupt my prevent, this makes no logical sense.  And I will continue to argue untill we come to a logical conclusion.  How can something that cannot be interrupted be interrupted?

1.  Can a negate card negate a CBN?  No, so Bringing Fear cannot negate Zeal.
2.  Can an interrupt card interrupt a non-CBN ability?  Yes, so Zeal can interrupt ObP.

You cannot interrupt my prevent, this makes no logical sense.

Yes, you can interrupt a prevent with a CBN interrupt.

For those of you who disagree what is your definition of indirect negate?

It doesn't exist...

You are have to interrupt my prevent to interrupt Overwhelmed by Philistines.

Zeal does not have to interrupt the prevent.  It is CBN.  Overwhelmed tries to prevent Zeal, but it cannot because Zeal CBN.  So Zeal takes effect.



The outline BB just posted is very good; if you still disagree, read that.