Author Topic: CBN Status? (Read 2830 times)

Jmbeers · « **on:** March 22, 2012, 01:22:45 AM »

Is an enhancement played on a character (who dose not make the enhancement CBN) that may bring in or at a later point in battle is brought in now make then enhancement CBN?

Simplest example I can think of:

I play Unified Kingdom on anything other than (King) David. I bring (King) David into battle. Is UK now CBN?

Wings of Music · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:24:22 AM »

I would say no, since at the time the ability activated Dave wasn't in battle, but I'm not sure if CBN is an ongoing ability or not, I'll have to check the REG...

EDIT: the REG doesn't say, it lists the cannot be abilities as 'other'

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:39:43 AM »

A card either has, or does not have CBN status when it is played.

So in your example UK is fully negateable.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:40:29 AM »

hey got a ruling right for once!

Jmbeers · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:43:54 AM »

I'm curious mainly because if you have multiple Heros in battle and the hero you were "playing" enhancements on is removed from the battle in any way all the ec's simply move over (assuming same brigade).

sk · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:50:53 AM »

Correct, but they are not re-played when the enhancements transfer. They have already completed and were either CBN or not at the moment they were played.

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 22, 2012, 01:24:22 AM

I'm not sure if CBN is an ongoing ability or not, I'll have to check the REG...

Other Abilities > Cannot be Negated > How to Play
All cannot be negated abilities are ongoing.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:54:26 AM »

Quote from: sk on March 22, 2012, 01:50:53 AM

Correct, but they are not re-played when the enhancements transfer. They have already completed and were either CBN or not at the moment they were played.

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 22, 2012, 01:24:22 AM
I'm not sure if CBN is an ongoing ability or not, I'll have to check the REG...

Other Abilities > Cannot be Negated > How to Play
All cannot be negated abilities are ongoing.

Not according to the REG, they are actually an 'other' ability. But they are ongoing in the sense that 'if it's CBN when played it maintains CBN status.

sk · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:59:11 AM »

That was a quote directly from the REG.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:37:53 AM »

Oh Ok, I missed that when I read through the REG then...

In that case is the ruling correct?

Because when Ishmiah bands to someone his negate increases but not his draw, because his negate is ongoing but his draw is instant. When considering the 'update' that happens to Ishmiah each time a hero enters battle, would not CBN status get the same update since it's an ongoing ability?

If not, what's the precedent for not 'updating' the CBN?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »

It's because abilities cannot gain CBN status after they've been played. CBN abilities are ongoing, yes, however, abilities cannot gain CBN status retroactively. That's just a game rule.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:19:37 AM »

That makes sense, do you know where it says that in the REG though? I would like to have that quote for reference. I didn't see anything like that when I was digging through the REG.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:22:46 AM »

So if a Genesis enhancement is played in battle, then later a card played says "Genesis enhancements cannot be negated," the first enhancement can still be negated?

lp670sv · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:30:05 AM »

By this ruling that sounds correct. They weren't CBN when played so they are never CBN. From my understanding of this anyway.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

That's how I have always understood it to be except I can't find where in the REG it actually says that...

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:44:29 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 22, 2012, 11:22:46 AM

So if a Genesis enhancement is played in battle, then later a card played says "Genesis enhancements cannot be negated," the first enhancement can still be negated?

Correct. For instance, if Benjamin is brought into battle off of a Creation of the World, CotW is still negatable.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:45:57 AM »

I don't see how this is not confusing to a new host/player, unless the REG actually states the rule in an obvious place.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:50:36 AM »

"CBN status cannot be gained after a card has been played" is not a hard concept to grasp.

Josh · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:51:58 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 22, 2012, 11:45:57 AM

I don't see how this is not confusing to a new host/player, unless the REG actually states the rule in an obvious place.

I also think this rule is counterintuitive. If, for example, Cherubim (a good Ezekiel card) bands to Ezekiel, and is then blocked by KoT, Cherubim is negated, even though Ezekiel literally says "Good Ezekiel cards cannot be negated". This would be very confusing if I was a new player. Actually it's still confusing.

Card abilities can be fully completed, and later negated by enhancements or characters that target them. I don't see why the "CBN" status of abilities can't also be dynamic.

EDIT:

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 22, 2012, 11:50:36 AM

"CBN status cannot be gained after a card has been played" is not a hard concept to grasp.

It's not a hard rule to memorize, yes. Why it's the rule in the first place is arguably hard to understand.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2012, 12:16:12 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 22, 2012, 11:50:36 AM

"CBN status cannot be gained after a card has been played" is not a hard concept to grasp.

It's a hard rule to find. I was talking about new players/hosts, in case you missed that part.

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2012, 12:53:07 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 22, 2012, 11:50:36 AM

"CBN status cannot be gained after a card has been played" is not a hard concept to grasp.

Although...the UK/David example makes me wonder if there is another example along these lines:

1. Present hero
2. Play banding card (*Note: banding card is not considered "played" until its SA completes.)
3. Band in hero that causes banding card to be CBN.

In this scenario, the banded in hero's SA completes before the banding card's SA completes. If the rule is added to the REG, it will need to address the above scenario if it's currently possible. (I can't think of any combo off the top of my head.)

Jmbeers · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:01:09 PM »

That is interesting because as I always understood it a card wasn't played until it's Sa completed.

lp670sv · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »

Since when can abilities insert themselves in to one another? The banding has to complete before the Character's SA can activate, it's always been played that one ability has to complete before others can happen

STAMP · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:31:26 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on March 22, 2012, 01:14:48 PM

Since when can abilities insert themselves in to one another? The banding has to complete before the Character's SA can activate, it's always been played that one ability has to complete before others can happen

Actually, no. It's always been that other abilities CAN insert themselves within other abilities. ALL the ITB+D+Play work that way.

lp670sv · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:52:50 PM »

interrupting an ability doesn't put that ability in to another, it suspends the original ability until the ITB is done.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:56:13 PM »

The timing of playing is a bit odd. This has come up recently and the way it works has not changed. While a card is technically not played until its SA completes, and this can sometimes lead to an umbrella effect especially with banding, the order in which the cards are played is determined by when they begin activating. In other words, play order is determined chronologically, not in order of when they finish resolving (which would usually be in reverse order).

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Author Topic: CBN Status? (Read 2830 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy