Author Topic: Cascading Negates (Read 3863 times)

Sean · « **on:** January 10, 2010, 12:17:50 AM »

I use Hero A to band to Hero B. I use Hero B's special ability to allow me to play a game of hide and seek with my opponent's deck. My opponent decides that he doesn't like hide and seek anymore so he blocks with 12FG and negates the banding believing that the cascade resulting for negation of the band would render my game of hide and seek null and void. Is my opponent correct?

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2010, 12:40:08 AM »

Generically speaking, yes, your game of hide and seak is indirectly negated.

In Redemption terms it actually depends on the real SA of character B. If it's a play next ability or something that cannot be interrupted/negated then it sticks.

browarod · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2010, 12:41:14 AM »

If neither the band nor "hide and seek" have "cannot be prevented" status, then he would be correct, I think.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:32:51 AM »

'Cannot be Interrupted' actually seeing as the abilites came before TFG.

browarod · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:57:11 AM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on January 10, 2010, 10:32:51 AM

'Cannot be Interrupted' actually seeing as the abilites came before TFG.

Um? So what if he can interrupt them? It's the preventing that would fizzle the "hide and seek" not the interrupting....

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:16:58 AM »

Prevents only stop abilities in the future.

To stop an ability that has already happened, you must interrupt it.

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:31:47 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 10, 2010, 11:16:58 AM

Prevents only stop abilities in the future.

To stop an ability that has already happened, you must interrupt it.

But simply interrupting it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, whereas preventing it does. Interrupt inherently needs something else to do more than pause the game. In this case, either "Cannot be prevented" or "Cannot be interrupted" would keep Hero B's effect from being fizzled by TFG.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:35:51 PM »

No, Absolutely not. CBP on Hero B does nothing. TFG negates (the ability on Hero A, Effectively Hero B never entered battle, since this ability happened after the Hero was added we say that it's ability was 'interrupted'.

Interrupts do not need prevents to go along with them in order to stop an ability.

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:37:53 PM »

When did I say the CBP was on Hero B? An interrupt (in my experience and understanding) by itself does nothing but pause the game. It needs something else, whether a prevent or a play next or w/e, in order to actually change anything.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:40:55 PM »

Quote

"Cannot be prevented" or "Cannot be interrupted" would keep Hero B's effect from being fizzled by TFG.

Technically you didn't specify so I assumed that it was on Hero B, so I apologize for that.
Regardless of which hero it was on CBP does nothing against the interrupt ability of TFG, and Hero B still fizzles.

browarod · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:49:21 PM »

Hmm, you are half right. CBP would not keep Hero B from fizzling unless both Heroes A and B were CBP. Then, if TFG was presented, he would interrupt, but then nothing else would happen, time would resume, the band would re-form, and Hero B would do it's thing. Unless I'm completely wrong about how interrupt works, I believe this is how it would go.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:52:16 PM »

The situation that happened in which Sean is referring to, *I was the one it happened to...xp* was that my opponent came in with Cherubim banded to King Lemuel. Used lemuel's effect. I came in with 12fg. Would 12FG negate lemuel's effect due to the fact that it negated the banding that brought him in?

Bryon · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:56:40 PM »

Yes. 12FG indirectly negates KL.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:57:09 PM »

Quote from: browarod on January 10, 2010, 10:49:21 PM

Hmm, you are half right. CBP would not keep Hero B from fizzling unless both Heroes A and B were CBP. Then, if TFG was presented, he would interrupt, but then nothing else would happen, time would resume, the band would re-form, and Hero B would do it's thing. Unless I'm completely wrong about how interrupt works, I believe this is how it would go.

No, a negate is NOT truely "interrupt and then prevent"

You can play a full negate and kill a CBP ability. The way you describe it, a CBP would be just as good as a CBN.

CBP ONLY stops cards from being pre-emptively negated, such as during FBTN. They fail to negates afterwards.
CBI ONLY stops cards from being negated afterwards. They fail during FBTN.
CBN does both.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:57:52 PM »

Ok. That is what I thought. It really didn't make a difference in the match because I still got creamed anyway. xp That is what I get for playing Brad's wife everytime there is a tourney.

browarod · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:04:33 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 10, 2010, 10:57:09 PM

No, a negate is NOT truely "interrupt and then prevent"

You can play a full negate and kill a CBP ability. The way you describe it, a CBP would be just as good as a CBN.

CBP ONLY stops cards from being pre-emptively negated, such as during FBTN. They fail to negates afterwards.
CBI ONLY stops cards from being negated afterwards. They fail during FBTN.
CBN does both.

O_o Really? When did that change?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:05:20 PM »

...Never?

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:06:35 PM »

It's been like that since I started playing years ago...and during my hiatis...and my return...xp

browarod · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:11:12 PM »

When I learned Redemption several years ago, negate meant "interrupt and prevent". Now you say it doesn't. Did I just learn incorrectly at the start?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:14:34 PM »

In most cases it is similar to interrupt and prevent. The main case it's not is when you have a negate played after a CBP. if it was truely interupt and then prevent, you would be right. However, negate is its own term that GENERALLY plays like int+prev, but can negate a CBP after it has been played.

browarod · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:16:09 PM »

Okay, I think I just got confused about CBP when it started showing up.

Thanks for the clarification ^_^

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:20:47 PM »

Yeah, personally I think more cards should just be CBP instead of CBN or CBI. Helps during FBTN, and can be used to your advantage in FBTN, but its not unstoppable after the fact like the other two.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2010, 12:15:04 PM »

or play the cbp ls too. works wonders.

STAMP · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2010, 12:58:36 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 10, 2010, 11:14:34 PM

In most cases it is similar to interrupt and prevent. The main case it's not is when you have a negate played after a CBP. if it was truely interupt and then prevent, you would be right. However, negate is its own term that GENERALLY plays like int+prev, but can negate a CBP after it has been played.

I'm very disappointed in how the whole interrupt, prevent and negate process now works. It generally gave me headaches when judging my tournaments. I dare say that without my fishing hobby I would have retired because of it. $:-\$

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2010, 01:05:35 PM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on January 11, 2010, 12:15:04 PM

or play the cbp ls too. works wonders.

Yeah, my comment was directed more towards the huge amounts of CBI / CBN stuff we've been getting lately.

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Author Topic: Cascading Negates (Read 3863 times)

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