Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Words of encouragement: Holder may Interrupt the battle , draw 3 and play the next enhancement.

Loyalty of Ruth: Hero has first strike.



Example:  White brigade hero is in battle with an EC.

Hero plays  the following enhancements in this order:

1st enhancement:  Words of encouragement

2nd: Words of encouragement (off of play ability of the 1st WOC)

3rd: Loyalty of Ruth

Then EC in battle negates the 1st words of encouragement played.




1. In this example would all 6 cards that the white hero drew go back on top of the deck with also the first strike ability on the Loyalty of Ruth card being negated?


Assuming the only thing that remains in battle would be the 2 WOC cards and Loyalty of Ruth cards being negated??

Ironisaac is correct. I would add that the first draw would be topdecked again in the same order (if possible). The exception would be if one or two of those cards were the second WoE and/or LoR, then those remain in play. 

Side note, I’m assuming this play was made from a Type 2 deck, since you can’t have two WoE in a Type 1 deck (assuming the T1 deck was under 100 cards).

If WoE/LoR were drawn, why would they not also be topdecked? is it because of the cbi play?

Yep, cards drawn and then added to battle via play or a CBI/N band stick to the table even if the draw is negated. They still get negated though.

So I am assuming  , if the first WoE is negated , then all 6 cards that were drawn (except for the cards that are already played in battle) would be put back (topdecked) and the loyalty card would be negated as well.

Resulting in

2 copies of WoE and loyalty of Ruth in the field of battle with all of their abilities negated (except the play abilities which are CBI)

Would this be correct??

It is correct.  However, WoE #2 and LoR would not be negated if they were not drawn via WoE #1/#2.

Why would they be negated if they were drawn by WoE? Since they can't be "unplayed" I don't see why they would still be indirectly negated like that.

Many players, myself included, have stated the exact same thing.  See this thread for the classic "all of the negateable effects that can be traced back to the negated ability are cascade negated" explanation.

The problem is, even once you get past the fact that many players don't like the rule and think it is unintuitive, "traced back to" is 100% subjective and different Redemption players think it means (or should mean) different things. 

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on September 03, 2018, 01:01:24 AM

So I am assuming  , if the first WoE is negated , then all 6 cards that were drawn (except for the cards that are already played in battle) would be put back (topdecked) and the loyalty card would be negated as well.

Resulting in

2 copies of WoE and loyalty of Ruth in the field of battle with all of their abilities negated (except the play abilities which are CBI)

Would this be correct??

It is correct.  However, WoE #2 and LoR would not be negated if they were not drawn via WoE #1/#2.

Is this how it is currently ruled???

From my current understanding , all play abilities themselves are CBI , but the card that the play ability played can still be negated (even casade negated) if they are not CBI or CBN.

Whether or not the 2nd WoE or LoR was drawn off of 1st and\or 2nd WoE draw ability don't think would matter and can still be negated or casade negated.


Does this sound accurate??

If not could someone help me understand it better??