Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I would like a ruling/clarification on the special abilities of Enoch and I believe, Job, which give them anti-discard abilities vs. let's say, Christian Martyr which DISCARDS a hero...  Now, especially in the case of Enoch who never actually died, how can an evil dominant discard him (Equating discard with death) if he cannot be discarded?  It does not make sense to me how that he can be discarded.  I know that he can be removed from the game, but it shouldn't be possible to bypass his anti-discard abilities.  And I was just curious because in the TXP Articles found at cactusgamedesign.com (Article 4 on Grapes of Wrath), I read this:

"Second grape:  This can remove placed evil cards from your heroes.  (Some of the placed evil enhancements in Thesaurus ex Preteritus are particularly troublesome to entire strategies) .  Make a rescue attempt with a hero that has an evil card placed on it.  When your opponent blocks, play Grapes of Wrath.  Discard the evil character.  Shuffle your hero back into your deck.  Since the hero is shuffled, the placed evil enhancement is discarded by game rule.  If your opponent is using Judas Iscariot, who is protected from discard, you can discard the placed enhancement instead, and shuffle Judas Iscariot.  If you are not winning, then you can try another rescue attempt with another hero."

After reading this, I got the impression that Grapes (A dominant) does not surpass Judas's anti-discard ability.  So, as long as Job or Enoch is in battle with their special ability active, are they protected from Christian Martyr?

Alright, cool, because a couple of times locally Enoch was removed via Christian Martyr and I thought it weird that his special ability wouldn't protect him (The other guys are more experienced and so I figured I'd ask because normally Dominants aren't blocked/negated by characters although they still follow the rules of resolution i.e. cards played before the dominant must resolve first...).

Ok, that's what I thought, although in Enoch's case, it's quite lame that his ability only protects him in battle... He can still be CM'd when in a territory  but I guess that would only be fair haha.

It does bother me slightly that the 2 people who actually never died (Enoch and Elijah) CAN still be discarded in territory, but that Judas Iscariot cannot.

He says "While in Play." This still needs to be "turned on" by entering battle at least once, but once a "while in play" ability activates, it remains active.

Ah, yes.  They should amend that ability to at least Enoch and Elijah.  After all, Judas hung himself.

We don't errata cards to make them stronger. (as a general rule)

Or Orignal Intent. I personlly think Split Altar needs errata as well as the horriblly OP'd Judas.

Hold up, Judas is OP'd now?

If we had to make a list of every card that was OP and you insist on Judas being in that category the list would be about 500 cards long.

It's not accute and he is better than evey standalone if you have a pump.

To my knowledge we've never, ever, errata'd the physical numbers on a card.

To do so would require an insane amount of checking by the players, in addition to that, redemption is alot bigger than these boards - we have 1000 members on these boards, maybe 100 of whom are actually active posters - This means that at least 900 people don't closely follow everything. It's simply impratical to change something so basic.

*insert flamefromPentecostal*
*insertlogic*
*insertflamefromPentecostal*
*insertlogic*
*insert"JesuslovesEveryone!"*
*insertlockage*

Actually, while God can do anything, He has given us free choice and some souls just cannot be saved because of that.  Alright, yeah, Redemption can't be 100% accurate, but the point is Elijah and Enoch never died.

actually, God can't do everything. discussed this in the thread "God" started by xCaLeBx.
and I won't touch the free choice part. I really hate getting super off topic on the age old debate.
and so they're protected from discard. we can't make them invincible, I think protected fits. it's not that they COULDN'T die, but they didn't. somebody could have cut their throats.

this is the best necropost ever, just because I can finally reread this:

*insert flamefromPentecostal*
*insertlogic*
*insertflamefromPentecostal*
*insertlogic*
*insert"JesuslovesEveryone!"*
*insertlockage*

Enoch's ability: "Enoch may be removed from the game but is prevented from being discarded. Return Enoch to territory at the end of battle."

If dominants can't be prevented, why would his ability stop him from being discarded?

it's protected, not preventing. Protection stops dominants, prevents do not.