Cactus Game Design Message Boards

If a card states that holder may draw 3 cards, and one of the 3 cards is a lost soul do you draw another card in the place of that lost soul?

If the card says that you may draw three cards can you draw as many as you choose up to three cards. so if you only want to draw one card is that ok?

Yes you could choose to draw only one card.  But it is one draw action not three, so you cannot choose to draw one card, see what it is, and then choose to draw a second card.

Has that always been the case?  I have never heard of such, and I couldn't find any proof in the REG supporting that.

Kirk

When I read the ability I come to the same conclusion as The Schaef.  There nothing intuitive about deciding you can draw less than three when the card says to draw three.  It's adding something to the card that I don't see there.  But does this interpretation contradict the general rule of how "may" is used in Redemption?

To make things simple in Redemption, every time you see the word "may," we always use the interpretation with the most options.

May for each part/target.

I don't think so, because the three cards is the total target of the draw ability.  It's not draw a card x3.  The phrase "up to" is supposed to be the keyword for allowing people to choose a smaller target than what is fully described in the ability.

Then why does "up to" exist if that is true by default?

We established a while back that if you have an optional ability with multiple targets you can choose to affect fewer than the maximum number of targets.  Didn't we?

For example, if there are three characters in play (my opponent's two heroes and my one brown evil character) I can play Haman's Plot and discard the two heroes without having to discard my own evil character as well, right?

I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure I remember being unable to discard exactly one character with Jephthah. Besides, with that logic, can't you choose to not select your own ECs to get hit by AoC?

can't you choose to not select your own ECs to get hit by AoC?

Only if AoC said "may", which it does not.

Point is, I have always understood "may" to indicate that you may or may not do a thing, but if you choose to, you must do as much as you are able; likewise, "up to" allows you to choose a partial target for an ability, but the ability must activate if there is no "may" qualifier.

Quote from: The Schaef on July 06, 2009, 02:38:33 PM

Then why does "up to" exist if that is true by default?

For clarifying purposes.

That doesn't make sense when it exists sometimes with "may" and sometimes apart from "may".

Well, if that's the argument you want to present, then I have no capacity to use syntax to explain to people how card abilities work, and our efforts to clean up card text has been a waste of time.

Hey,

Well, if that's the argument you want to present, then I have no capacity to use syntax to explain to people how card abilities work, and our efforts to clean up card text has been a waste of time.

When the significance of the syntax is what is being debated (as is the case here) then you cannot use the syntax as an argument.  That doesn't stop you from using the syntax to guide the uninformed masses in other situations.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Quote

For example, if there are three characters in play (my opponent's two heroes and my one brown evil character) I can play Haman's Plot and discard the two heroes without having to discard my own evil character as well, right?

Bad example, Haman's Plot is not optional...  

Kirk

The tearing in half part is optional but it's the cost to pay in order to use the discard ability.

Also, I've always thought if you ripped a Plot, you had to discard 3 characters if 3 were available (even if one was yours).

I'm with Schaef on this one. You either draw 3 or pass on drawing (unless your deck only has 1 or 2 cards left, but that's an "as much as you can do" scenario).

We established a while back that if you have an optional ability with multiple targets you can choose to affect fewer than the maximum number of targets.  Didn't we?

Except... this card only has one target for the draw ability.

The top 3 cards are a single target.

So, if the way you propose were true, could someone set aside all but one female hero with Foolishness of Five Virgins? (Holder may interrupt the battle and set aside all female Heroes in the Field of Battle for 5 turns, then return them to their owner's territory.) Or how about Sinning Hand? It say you may discard half of your hand. Does that mean If I have 8 cards in my hand, I "may" target four cards individually, and just choose to discard one? Divinations of the Church too, N.T. Heroes may not enter battle this turn... so could I still let him use one that would give me initative to do nasty things?

I dont see May as the ultimate "split every ability apart and pick and choose" ability you see it as. These draw cards that say "may interrupt the battle, draw three cards, and play the next enhancement." have three seperate abilities, I dont understand how you get the idea that May means you can just break those abilities apart further.