Author Topic: Captured Heroes vs. Chamber vs. Burial vs. Shuffler (Read 5093 times)

Master_Chi · « **on:** August 23, 2010, 03:21:44 PM »

Since I like to use gray, which has the most "capture" abilities, 1) when I capture a Silver Hero, for it to bypass Chamber of Angels, do I have to use specific capture cards?

EX:
Rescue TSA. Block Naaman w/ N's Horses/Chariots, play Snare.

In this example, Snare specifically says to treat the captured as a Lost Soul. 2) Is this different than doing the exact same thing above, but playing Demonic Snare or another "just capture" enhancement?

3) What happens to captured characters that are shuffled by the Shuffler LS? Are they still considered Lost Souls, or do they return to being Heroes when drawn?

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2010, 03:39:09 PM »

1) Chamber of Angels is for discarded angels only.

2) I think all captures are instantly LS's, it just matters which LoB they're supposed to go into.

3) They're heros again.

Daniel

TimMierz · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2010, 03:39:46 PM »

Snare's "treat as a Lost Soul" stuff is just there because it's an older card - it spells out what capturing actually means. By now capturing is a very standard ability so they don't define it on every card anymore. Demonic Snare's "Capture a Hero." does the same thing as Snare's long discourse.

Any time a card enters a deck, hand, or discard pile, it returns to face value. A captured character shuffled into its owner's deck is once again a Hero/EC. A Paul returned to hand becomes Saul when it's played again. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:11:02 PM »

Though if you plan on doing a lot of capturing, check out Raiders Camp

Master_Chi · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2010, 07:13:01 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on August 23, 2010, 04:11:02 PM

Though if you plan on doing a lot of capturing, check out Raiders Camp

Raider's Camp BAD for Hero-lite.

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on August 23, 2010, 03:39:09 PM

1) Chamber of Angels is for discarded angels only.

Should've been more clear, I mean if I use Burial or Barabbas' SA, do they still go to Chamber or just to d/c pile as LS's?

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:09:36 PM »

That one i'm not sure about man. Someone will have to answer that one.

Daniel

Master_Chi · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:14:26 PM »

Elder(s), please?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:28:17 PM »

I'm not an Elder, but this is what I would rule:

Chamber has a Play As that states, "If holder's angel is being discarded, heal and place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your deck." I highlighted the word "heal" because characters being treated as Lost Souls can not be healed (that I am aware of). Now, if they can be healed, then I would say Chamber would get them, because captured heroes may no longer be heroes, but they keep their "angel" identifier.

Chamber of Angels (AW)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set this fortress aside. If holder's angel is being discarded, place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your draw pile. • Play As: If holder's angel is being discarded, heal and place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your deck. Chamber of Angels may hold any number of angels. • Identifiers: Play to set-aside area. • Verse: Revelation 4:8 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Rare)

Master_Chi · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:34:25 PM »

I was thinking that since they are considered Lost Souls, both Burial and Barabbas would be able to d/c them without the captured going to Chamber, since they are no longer angels, but LS's.... Although Barabbas treats them as "captured Heroes".

SomeKittens · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2010, 11:43:47 PM »

"captured heroes", which would be treated as LS anyway.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2010, 02:21:06 AM »

Actually, this is tricky. The Eratta on AW is unnecessary and should probably be deleted along with the other stuff wrong with the REG.

What is interesting about the SA is that a card only needs to be an Angel to go there (something a Captured Angel still is), but has to be a Hero to get out (something a Captured Angel is not). Currently, by the rules, an Angel that is Captured and in its owner's Land of Bondage, (since if it's in an opponent's Land of Bondage, he controls it and it is therefore not "your" Angel) when Discarded, goes to Chamber and just gets stuck there.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2010, 10:03:02 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 24, 2010, 02:21:06 AM

Actually, this is tricky. The Eratta on AW is unnecessary and should probably be deleted along with the other stuff wrong with the REG.

What is interesting about the SA is that a card only needs to be an Angel to go there (something a Captured Angel still is), but has to be a Hero to get out (something a Captured Angel is not). Currently, by the rules, an Angel that is Captured and in its owner's Land of Bondage, (since if it's in an opponent's Land of Bondage, he controls it and it is therefore not "your" Angel) when Discarded, goes to Chamber and just gets stuck there.

The logic here is sound, so I am inclined to agree. Interesting.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2010, 03:36:33 PM »

Creating more unnecessary clutter, a la Doubt. Why is it still classified as an angel?

Master_Chi · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2010, 07:39:23 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on August 24, 2010, 03:36:33 PM

Creating more unnecessary clutter, a la Doubt. Why is it still classified as an angel?

Might have something to do with cards don't lose their identifiers, just their name, abilities, and SA's....

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 24, 2010, 02:21:06 AM

What is interesting about the SA is that a card only needs to be an Angel to go there (something a Captured Angel still is), but has to be a Hero to get out (something a Captured Angel is not). Currently, by the rules, an Angel that is Captured and in its owner's Land of Bondage, (since if it's in an opponent's Land of Bondage, he controls it and it is therefore not "your" Angel) when Discarded, goes to Chamber and just gets stuck there.

That is quite interesting.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2010, 08:49:20 PM »

Quote from: Master_Chi on August 24, 2010, 07:39:23 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on August 24, 2010, 03:36:33 PM
Creating more unnecessary clutter, a la Doubt. Why is it still classified as an angel?

Might have something to do with cards don't lose their identifiers, just their name, abilities, and SA's....

Captured characters retain all parts of their identities, including name. For example, It's been previously ruled that if you have Jacob in play, then you capture your opponent's Jacob, you must immediately discard 1 because you cannot have 2 in your territory.

However, if converted, Heretics and Magicians have their identifiers magically disappear.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2010, 11:50:51 PM »

I would still argue that a captured angel can not be targeted by Chamber of Angels because of the "heal" special ability in the "Play As."

Instant Special Abilities > Restore Life, Heal, or Release > Special Conditions

• You can’t heal someone that is removed from the game, captured, set aside, or converted.

The "heal" ability overrides the "discard" ability, which is why healed characters retain gained abilities.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2010, 04:06:51 AM »

Play-as is not Errata. The bit about healing can be disregarded since it's not an errata and changes the card.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2010, 09:07:48 AM »

So captured Silver brigade Heroes targeted for discard will go to Chamber, but be stuck until the game ends?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2010, 11:04:48 AM »

Quote from: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 09:07:48 AM

So captured Silver brigade Heroes targeted for discard will go to Chamber, but be stuck until the game ends?

Or until they are shuffled in somehow (ANB) or returned to bottom of draw pile (Prince of the Air). But like Pol said, it won't happen often, because the Angel has to be discarded from your territory. If discarded from your opponent's territory, you don't have control of the Angel, so it is not "yours" and it goes to the discard pile. So unless someone buries it from your territory, it doesn't go to Chamber.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2010, 11:08:12 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 25, 2010, 11:04:48 AM

Quote from: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 09:07:48 AM
So captured Silver brigade Heroes targeted for discard will go to Chamber, but be stuck until the game ends?

Or until they are shuffled in somehow (ANB) or returned to bottom of draw pile (Prince of the Air). But like Pol said, it won't happen often, because the Angel has to be discarded from your territory. If discarded from your opponent's territory, you don't have control of the Angel, so it is not "yours" and it goes to the discard pile. So unless someone buries it from your territory, it doesn't go to Chamber.

I am the one doing the capturing/discarding, so if I discard my opponent's captured Angels, they go to the discard pile?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2010, 11:15:31 AM »

Quote from: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 11:08:12 AM

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 25, 2010, 11:04:48 AM
Quote from: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 09:07:48 AM
So captured Silver brigade Heroes targeted for discard will go to Chamber, but be stuck until the game ends?

Or until they are shuffled in somehow (ANB) or returned to bottom of draw pile (Prince of the Air). But like Pol said, it won't happen often, because the Angel has to be discarded from your territory. If discarded from your opponent's territory, you don't have control of the Angel, so it is not "yours" and it goes to the discard pile. So unless someone buries it from your territory, it doesn't go to Chamber.

I am the one doing the capturing/discarding, so if I discard my opponent's captured Angels, they go to the discard pile?

Yes. In order for an Angel to go to your Chamber, you must own AND control it. Otherwise they go to the discard pile.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2010, 11:17:25 AM »

Happy timez that I found a way around recurring TSA and Captain.........

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2010, 11:34:15 AM »

So do we disregard the play as for cards? Is chamber considered a heal card?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2010, 12:21:27 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 25, 2010, 11:34:15 AM

So do we disregard the play as for cards? Is chamber considered a heal card?

No. Only when the Play As should be termed errata. This card should not have the Play As. Chamber should not be considered a healing card.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #24 on:** August 26, 2010, 04:18:36 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 25, 2010, 12:21:27 PM

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 25, 2010, 11:34:15 AM
So do we disregard the play as for cards?

No. Only when the Play As should be termed errata. This card should not have the Play As.

Well, that makes things so much easier for hosts. Just go to the REG, look for a Play-As, but disregard the Play-As occasionally. Thank you for clearing that up.

News:

Author Topic: Captured Heroes vs. Chamber vs. Burial vs. Shuffler (Read 5093 times)