Author Topic: Captured Hero vs Discard (Read 5740 times)

Master KChief · « **on:** November 29, 2009, 02:15:27 AM »

my opponent captures my hero. he then uses burial on it. can i use a healing card like brass serpent or i am healing to heal it back to play during the same turn it was buried?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2009, 02:33:00 AM »

Yes - I believe so, because everything resets in the discard pile, so It becomes a disarded hero at that point. (I think)

Arch Angel · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2009, 02:10:37 PM »

Except the point of a Heal card is it prevents the reset. I don't think it works because it's not a hero when it dies.

Master KChief · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2009, 07:33:57 PM »

except a healing card can be used anytime during a turn, even a phase after the hero is discarded. that doesnt sound like a prevent to me, but rather a card that is looking for a hero that was placed in a discard pile that turn.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2009, 07:48:48 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 29, 2009, 07:33:57 PM

except a healing card can be used anytime during a turn, even a phase after the hero is discarded. that doesnt sound like a prevent to me, but rather a card that is looking for a hero that was placed in a discard pile that turn.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2009, 07:53:21 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 29, 2009, 07:33:57 PM

except a healing card can be used anytime during a turn, even a phase after the hero is discarded. that doesnt sound like a prevent to me, but rather a card that is looking for a hero that was placed in a discard pile that turn.

except a healing card also brings back weapon class enhancements the hero was wearing, so I'm not sure if the hero was ever actually in the discard pile at all.

Master KChief · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:01:27 PM »

if they were discarded in a previous phase before the healing card was used, and they're not residing in a discard pile, then where are they?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:09:41 PM »

I'm pretty sure discarded captured heroes are not able to be healed with hero-healing cards. I don't know the exact resoning behind that, but I'm almost positive that's how it's ruled.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 29, 2009, 08:01:27 PM

if they were discarded in a previous phase before the healing card was used, and they're not residing in a discard pile, then where are they?

Purgatory?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:52:12 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 29, 2009, 08:01:27 PM

if they were discarded in a previous phase before the healing card was used, and they're not residing in a discard pile, then where are they?

Good question.

All I know is that a warrior class character retains his weapon no matter when he is healed. I am not sure how that occurs since being placed in the discard pile disassociates weapon from bearer.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:16:23 PM »

A Heal card is like a reset to the status they use to be. Since capture isn't a heal-able status, even if you COULD heal them you'd be returning them as a Lost Soul. But, then you'd be healing a lost soul and not a hero, so the heal card wouldn't have a target anymore.

Master KChief · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:21:43 PM »

...or, heal cards simply heal heroes that are in the discard pile that were discarded up to that point during that turn. that seems like the simpler explanation.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:33:28 PM »

Instant Abilities > Restore Life, Heal, or Release > Special Conditions

• You can’t heal someone that is removed from the game, captured, set aside, or converted.

Based on the above quote, it is clear that you can not heal a captured character. Since healed characters retain their abilities, it is also clear that they were not in the discard pile (for ruling purposes). The heal card is effectively making the character never have gone to the discard pile in the first place - a distortion of the time/space continuum.

I would agree with those that say you can not use a heal enhancement on a captured character that was discarded.

Master KChief · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:38:19 PM »

um, that reg quote is referring to heroes that are currently captured, not heroes that have gone to the discard pile thereafter..

Arch Angel · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:44:44 PM »

But when the card was discard it was NOT a hero. Thus the hero wasn't discarded during that turn, so the heal card can't target it.

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:46:43 PM »

thats one way to see it, but you could also see it as:

1. hero was a hero at some point during the turn.
2. hero is now in the discard pile.
3. you can heal said hero in discard pile.

it just depends on how you define heal, i guess.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2009, 11:06:35 PM »

But that would not explain why healed characters keep their gained abilities. Cards in the discard pile reset, but healed cards do not. Therefore they effectively must not have been in the discard pile. Heal cards target cards about to be discarded. They never were discarded.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2009, 11:11:08 PM »

Then you can never heal anything - because everything happens instantly - In fact it used to be the case that certain healing cards (Based on wording) couldn't heal from CM because CM happened instantly - now that everything resolves instantly all healing cards have had minor rule tweaks so they all work the same. (Somebody like Tim can confirm this for me.... I'm pretty sure thats the deal.)

Master KChief · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2009, 12:22:29 AM »

if a hero is discarded during my prep phase, and i wait until my battle phase to use brass serpent to heal it...again, where was the hero? was it not in a discard pile? was it not discarded? obviously, the hero was discarded.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2009, 12:54:02 AM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on November 29, 2009, 08:17:08 PM

Purgatory?

Master KChief · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:02:10 AM »

i would be content with that if only i could find 'purgatory' in the REG...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:07:01 AM »

Purgatory:
An imaginary place where cards that still have a chance to interrupt their removal from battle, characters that could still be potentially healed and their weapons, and multiple dominants played at the exact same time go.

Master KChief · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:11:30 AM »

heh, i like it.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:17:39 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 30, 2009, 01:07:01 AM

Purgatory:
An imaginary place where cards that still have a chance to interrupt their removal from battle, characters that could still be potentially healed and their weapons, and multiple dominants played at the exact same time go.

It's in the new REG (and it may be years until you can prove otherwise),

SirNobody · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:21:04 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 29, 2009, 11:06:35 PM

But that would not explain why healed characters keep their gained abilities. Cards in the discard pile reset, but healed cards do not. Therefore they effectively must not have been in the discard pile. Heal cards target cards about to be discarded. They never were discarded.

Healed characters don't keep their gained abilities. They get discarded and once they hit the discard pile they lose their gained abilities. When they are healed, they get their gained abilities back.

As far as the issue in general, you can't heal any character. You can only heal a character if: (1) it is poisoned, (2) it is diseased, (3) it is being discarded, or (4) it was discarded at some previous point during the current turn. In other words, a healing ability can only target: (1) a poisoned character, (2) a diseased character, (3) a character that is being discarded, or (4) a character that was discarded at some previous point during the current turn.

After Burial is played on a captured character the captured character was discarded at some previous point during the current turn, but a captured character is not a character. So the card does not qualify as a character that was discarded at some previous point during the current turn, and thus cannot be targeted by the healing ability.

This is just my opinion on the matter, and I'm not even very confident in my opinion in part because it goes against my general guideline for answering healing questions. But that's what my gut says.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

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Author Topic: Captured Hero vs Discard (Read 5740 times)