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Author Topic: Captured demons  (Read 5198 times)

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2011, 03:34:23 PM »
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I like the fact that the argument is made to just ignore parts of the SA on certain cards. Let me clarify (heh) exactly what I am saying here.  There is now a game rule that states demons cannot be treated as Lost Souls. That being the case "Treat as a lost soul"--when applied to demons--cannot merely be clarifying text. I can't clarify something by making a false claim.

Follow-up question...

Does this ruling apply to Que? After all in the Angel Wars videos, doesn't Que repent?  
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 03:42:48 PM by EmJayBee83 »
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Offline CountFount

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2011, 03:41:08 PM »
+1
I thought 'Q' was on Star Trek ???
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2011, 03:44:57 PM »
+2
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 21, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
I like the fact that the argument is made to just ignore parts of the SA on certain cards. Let me clarify (heh) exactly what I am saying here.  There is now a game rule that states demons cannot be treated as Lost Souls. That being the case "Treat as a lost soul"--when applied to demons--cannot merely be clarifying text. I can't clarify something by making a false claim.

Follow-up question...

Does this ruling apply to Que? After all in the Angel Wars videos, doesn't Que repent?  

I think we need to start a "Save Que" petition. If Jesus can save you then he can save Que!
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2011, 03:47:01 PM »
+1
Bible > Angel Wars.  I managed to make it through the Bible, but never made it through Angel Wars.
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Offline JSB23

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2011, 03:54:04 PM »
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Quote from: SomeKittens on February 21, 2011, 03:47:01 PM
Bible > Angel Wars.  I managed to make it through the Bible, but never made it through Angel Wars.
Hmmm.... then why did we base a set off of something that contradicts the Bible?
Bonus questions:
1. Show me where it says demons can not be redeemed (Biblically speaking of course)
2. Explain Angelic Rebellion
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2011, 03:57:38 PM »
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Quote from: TheHobbit13 on February 21, 2011, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 21, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
Does this ruling apply to Que? After all in the Angel Wars videos, doesn't Que repent?  

I think we need to start a "Save Que" petition. If Jesus can save you then he can save Que!
Of course Que is NT, and we already know that Son of God can't save the NT-only Lost Soul.  Maybe that is it.  ;)

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 21, 2011, 03:47:01 PM
Bible > Angel Wars.
No argument there. I am just pointing out this is a weird place to start making game rulings based on theology.

Even accepting that demons cannot be redeemed, I still don't understand this ruling. It seems to me that "Lost Soul" is not the logical equivalent to "Something that can be redeemed." Are we claiming that theologically demons are not in some sense "lost" or that they do not have "souls?"
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 04:08:16 PM by EmJayBee83 »
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2011, 04:44:27 PM »
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Quote from: The M on February 21, 2011, 01:53:45 PM
So they just sit in your LoB doing nothing?
Basically yes.

Quote from: The M on February 21, 2011, 01:53:45 PM
Also, could you add a captured demon in your LoB to a site if you used guards?
No.  Guards adds an "evil character" they are no longer a "evil character", but a "captured evil character".

Quote from: browarod on February 21, 2011, 03:27:48 PM
I think the "Treat as a Lost Soul" on TiC is clarifying text as "take prisoner" and "capture" already treat the character as such just with that terminology. As such, I'd venture to guess you could simply ignore that for demons.
+1

Quote from: CountFount on February 21, 2011, 03:41:08 PM
I thought 'Q' was on Star Trek ???
Nice transition.  The "Q" episodes were some of my favorites :)

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 21, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Are we claiming that theologically demons are not in some sense "lost" or that they do not have "souls?"
I would guess that we are saying that IF demons have souls, that they are not the same sort of souls that humans have, and that they cannot be saved by the same method that human souls are (which is the only method available in Redemption).
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browarod

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2011, 04:54:38 PM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on February 21, 2011, 04:44:27 PM
I would guess that we are saying that IF demons have souls, that they are not the same sort of souls that humans have, and that they cannot be saved by the same method that human souls are (which is the only method available in Redemption).
Speaking strictly theologically, isn't the whole premise of Redemption's win strategy un-Biblical? I mean, God saves souls, not humans (or angels).
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2011, 04:58:22 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on February 21, 2011, 04:54:38 PM
Speaking strictly theologically, isn't the whole premise of Redemption's win strategy un-Biblical? I mean, God saves souls, not humans (or angels).
Again, I would guess that the idea is that God uses humans and angels as instruments of His grace in order to draw people to Himself.  Or as the saying goes..."We are the hands and feet of Jesus" :)
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2011, 05:00:36 PM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on February 21, 2011, 04:44:27 PM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 21, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Are we claiming that theologically demons are not in some sense "lost" or that they do not have "souls?"
I would guess that we are saying that IF demons have souls, that they are not the same sort of souls that humans have, and that they cannot be saved by the same method that human souls are (which is the only method available in Redemption).
I think you miss my point. I am asking for the basis for your ruling about demons not being lost souls because it does not strictly follow from the ruling that demons cannot be redeemed.

Let's say we are in agreement that demons cannot be redeemed (which I posited at the start except for possibly Que) for theological reasons. What theological justification is there for your assertion (actually adotson's assertion that you have agreed with) that demons cannot be "lost souls?"  IF demons have souls and IF demons are lost why can't they be "lost souls" even if they cannot be rescued?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2011, 08:04:58 PM »
+1
Actually, the burden of proof is really more on you. Satan and his followers were cast out of heaven, and there's nothing in the Bible to suggest they can be redeemed. The status quo is that they have been expelled from the presence of God, so it's not our job to prove that they can't be redeemed.
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Offline Red

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2011, 08:06:57 PM »
-1
No where in the bible is it shown that a demon is redeemed. That is why I was firmly against Redemption of Demons.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2011, 11:39:32 PM »
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Quote from: SomeKittens on February 21, 2011, 01:53:06 PM
So they don't get shuffled.
Can I get a definitive answer on this?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2011, 01:17:52 AM »
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Shuffler LS shuffles LS's, not captured Demons.
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Offline Soundman2

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2011, 02:11:55 AM »
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Quote from: Red on February 21, 2011, 08:06:57 PM
No where in the bible is it shown that a demon is redeemed. That is why I was firmly against Redemption of Demons.

but we are not "Redeeming Demons" we are taking one card that represents a bad guy and turning it into a card that represents a point.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Captured demons
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2011, 02:37:20 AM »
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...and the argument has come full circle.
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