Author Topic: Captured Demons  (Read 7756 times)

Offline RTSmaniac

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Captured Demons
« on: October 11, 2010, 12:15:31 PM »
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Can captured demons be banded into battle?
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 12:44:36 PM »
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Not unless you break their chains.

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 12:48:47 PM »
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hmm, that would be interesting.... why not? if a captured demon is no longer treated as a lost soul...... this would be an interesting new concept in redemption
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browarod

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 03:50:42 PM »
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I'm assuming that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon", much like captured hero vs hero.

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 03:56:25 PM »
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I'm assuming that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon", much like captured hero vs hero.

well, captured heroes are treated as lost souls, while demons are not
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 05:07:25 PM »
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Can captured demons be banded into battle?
Nope.

Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 07:52:56 PM »
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Im looking for more than yes or no on this...
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 08:01:09 PM »
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You can't band to heros in Raiders Camp because "captured hero" is not the same as "hero".  It has already been answered that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon".  The captured demon is not treated as a lost soul; it is just treated as a "captured demon" and an evil card. 

If you had a card that banded to "captured demons" then I guess you could but I don't think that will happen. 

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 08:16:53 PM »
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You can't band to heros in Raiders Camp because "captured hero" is not the same as "hero".  It has already been answered that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon".  The captured demon is not treated as a lost soul; it is just treated as a "captured demon" and an evil card. 

If you had a card that banded to "captured demons" then I guess you could but I don't think that will happen. 
+1

Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 08:18:41 PM »
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thanx guys!
This is the way Lackey gave it to me. All hail the power of Lackey!

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 08:40:15 PM »
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Hey,

Demons are a subset of Evil Characters.  Are "captured demons" a subset of "captured Evil Characters?"

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 08:45:06 PM »
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do you mean....

the two subsets of ECs are demons and humans. in the same way, the two subsets of captures ECs are captured demons and captures humans (treated as lost souls)

??

because if you do, that makes a lot of sense :) and if you don't i'm very much confused :(
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Offline Master_Chi

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 12:51:43 AM »
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Wait, captured demons are not treated as Lost Souls? If they're just treated as Evil cards, can you use cards that discard evil cards to discard their captured demons?
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Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 02:04:26 AM »
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Wait, captured demons are not treated as Lost Souls? If they're just treated as Evil cards, can you use cards that discard evil cards to discard their captured demons?

I assume so...

I am sure of what is in my announcement.  My rulings on all the questions below are my best guesses.

If I capture a demon, do I control the card? I can't think of any play off the top of my head where this would matter, but I could see it being used to pay a cost or discard an evil card if needed.
Yes you would control it.  Yes you could use it to pay the cost of discarding an evil card.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=273.0;msg=376158
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 10:37:46 AM »
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Demons are a subset of Evil Characters.  Are "captured demons" a subset of "captured Evil Characters?"
Evil Characters are a card type, so it makes sense that Demons are a subtype of them.

I don't remember hearing of "captured Evil Characters" being a specific category, therefore I don't know that it has subtypes.  Where are you going with this line of thinking?

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 01:04:25 PM »
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Hey,

do you mean....

the two subsets of ECs are demons and humans. in the same way, the two subsets of captures ECs are captured demons and captures humans (treated as lost souls)

Basically, although there are three subsets of Evil Characters, humans, demons, and animals.

Demons are a subset of Evil Characters.  Are "captured demons" a subset of "captured Evil Characters?"
Evil Characters are a card type, so it makes sense that Demons are a subtype of them.

I don't remember hearing of "captured Evil Characters" being a specific category, therefore I don't know that it has subtypes.  Where are you going with this line of thinking?

It's my understanding that "Captured Hero" and "Captured Evil Character" are card types that exist (despite the fact that we have never printed a card that is a captured hero or captured evil character at face value).  These two card types together are referred to as Captured Characters (just like "characters" is used to refer to heroes and evil characters).  These two card types can have the same identifiers as their non-captured counter parts.   

Ashpenaz and Leper Colony are two cards that specifically affect "captured human heroes" which we've all just assumed is the subset of captured hero that are humans.  Which makes me think that "captured demon" is the same as "captured demonic Evil Character" which is a subset of "captured Evil Character."

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 01:35:56 PM »
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Ashpenaz and Leper Colony are two cards that specifically affect "captured human heroes" which we've all just assumed is the subset of captured hero that are humans.  Which makes me think that "captured demon" is the same as "captured demonic Evil Character" which is a subset of "captured Evil Character."
"captured human heroes" could just as easily be "captured heroes" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "human" identifier.  Similarly "captured demons" could simply be "captured evil characters" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "demon" identifier.

I'm just not seeing what the purpose is in making "captured demons" a specific identified group.  There aren't any cards that refer to them, so what is the point?

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 01:41:34 PM »
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There aren't any cards currently that refer to them.
That doesn't mean that there couldn't be in the future.

And there is no denying that captured demons are fundamentally different than captured characters, or even captured evil characters, since they have the caveat that they cannot be redeemed.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 01:44:14 PM by Red Dragon Thorn »
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 01:50:19 PM »
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There aren't any cards currently that refer to them.
That doesn't mean that there couldn't be in the future.
And I'm not necessarily against having them become a specific card type in the future.  I'm just trying to figure out what the motivation is behind trying to do it now.  If there's no affect on the game, I'd rather just avoid introducing more "special language" into the game until we have to.  Sometimes adding stuff like that can have unintended consequences.

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 02:20:41 PM »
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Hey,

"captured human heroes" could just as easily be "captured heroes" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "human" identifier.  Similarly "captured demons" could simply be "captured evil characters" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "demon" identifier.

I find your verbiage confusing.  Are you saying that "captured human heroes" and "captured heroes with the identifier 'human'" are two different ways of referring to the same set of cards?  And similarly that "captured demons" and "captured evil characters with the identifier 'demon'" refer to the same set of cards?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly


Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM »
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I find your verbiage confusing.
I'll try to make it simple.  The phrase "captured demons" is not currently referred to as "special language" on any cards.  I don't want to agree to it becoming "special language" unless there is a good reason to.  Maybe other elders want to make that call, but I don't feel comfortable doing it without knowing more about what repercussions it will have.

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2010, 04:25:18 PM »
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Hey,

do you mean....

the two subsets of ECs are demons and humans. in the same way, the two subsets of captures ECs are captured demons and captures humans (treated as lost souls)
Basically, although there are three subsets of Evil Characters, humans, demons, and animals.

ahh yes, i forgot about animals. now that it has been decided that demons cannot be redeemed, it should really be taken under consideration that angels and animals cannot as well.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2010, 06:00:34 PM »
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When my wife and I got our dog from the pound, we rescued the dog.  In a sense, we redeemed the dog.  Not the soul of the dog.  Just its physical body.

When Jeremiah was put in the Dungeon of Malchiah, he was later pulled from that dungeon.  He never was considered "lost" spiritually.  He was just physically captured.  It is OK to physically rescue an animal or a person and still call it a rescue.

Rob once made the point that an angel can be considered "captured" in the sense that it is being held back from the mission it was sent to accomplish (see the angel in Daniel who was resisted for days until Michael came to "rescue" him).

So, I don't have a problem rescuing animals or angels.  I just wouldn't want to rescue a demon.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2010, 06:22:08 PM »
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I'm totally going to set it up so that The Serpent becomes a Redeemed Soul.  :-*

browarod

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Re: Captured Demons
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2010, 06:25:42 PM »
+1
I'm totally going to set it up so that The Serpent becomes a Redeemed Soul.  :-*
I dunno why The Serpent was ever an animal to begin with, tbqh. It should have simply been a Beast (Demon).

 


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