Author Topic: Capture question  (Read 6005 times)

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2012, 05:09:42 PM »
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and i contest if exchange on cards like sws is gonna exist in the game then capture should work diffrently otherwise we have 2 abilitys that do the same thing.

No they don't do the same thing. Capture abilities convert a character into a Lost Soul (or, in the case of demons, just move them). Additionally, by default, capture abilities move that converted soul into your Land of Bondage, but they don't have to go there - some abilities allow you to put them in your opponent's.

Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2012, 05:10:54 PM »
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except in the case of raiders camp where its placed there upon capture as a character not a soul ty
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 11:14:47 PM »
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Actually, to hold its original name and to be a 'Captured Hero' it is still a Character. But it's still being treated as a LS too. It's why the Unique rule still happens.

If you want to argue that you can have a captured character and that same character at the same time, you'll have to take it up with the Elders.  That's how it's been ruled.

However, it is also ruled (per the REG and rulings) that Captured Characters are not the same thing as Heroes and EC.  "Daniel Hero is in play" means that it cannot be a Captured Daniel Hero.  They are not the same thing.

I have never seen this rule. And if this is true, then any card that notes to a 'Captured Hero' or anything captured, wouldnt work and neither would the Unique rule.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2012, 11:17:29 PM »
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I have never seen this rule. And if this is true, then any card that notes to a 'Captured Hero' or anything captured, wouldnt work and neither would the Unique rule.

The unique rule works perfectly because alignment doesn't affect a character's uniqueness (for instance both versions of King Saul).

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2012, 12:50:47 AM »
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A Lost Soul has no name, so if it's no longer a Hero or a Character but a LS it has no name. It's name is Lost Soul.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 12:52:35 AM »
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A Lost Soul has no name, so if it's no longer a Hero or a Character but a LS it has no name. It's name is Lost Soul.

A "Lost Soul" and a "Captured Hero/Evil Character" are different, and are governed by different rules. Captured characters (minus demons) share a lot of the traits that Lost Souls have, however, they are still different card types.

Offline Jmbeers

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2012, 01:05:34 AM »
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So would a player be restricted from placing say, a sammy in their territory if they have a captured one in their LOB?
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 01:08:15 AM »
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So would a player be restricted from placing say, a sammy in their territory if they have a captured one in their LOB?

Yes.

Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 01:09:25 AM »
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ok so they can't place him but they can still exchange him in and then choose to d/c the ls one ?
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 01:10:44 AM »
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ok so they can't place him but they can still exchange him in and then choose to d/c the ls one ?

Under the current rules, yes, I believe so.

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 01:53:04 AM »
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What I'm saying is that they are still characters but also treated as Lost Souls. Redoubter is saying that they are no longer characters and lose their everything. Just because it says treat as a LS doesn't mean its not a Hero. The card still holds its name, type, Identifiers etc. it just has a new status, Captured.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 02:11:31 AM »
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What I'm saying is that they are still characters but also treated as Lost Souls. Redoubter is saying that they are no longer characters and lose their everything. Just because it says treat as a LS doesn't mean its not a Hero. The card still holds its name, type, Identifiers etc. it just has a new status, Captured.

The card does not retain its card type, and it cannot be targeted by its Identifiers, however, it can be "viewed" by them (so for instance, a card that said "return an Assyrian to deck" wouldn't work on a captured Assyrian Survivor, but ASA's ability could activate off of Survivor). "Captured Hero" and "Hero" are separate.

Offline Praeceps

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2012, 07:46:31 AM »
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A Lost Soul has no name, so if it's no longer a Hero or a Character but a LS it has no name. It's name is Lost Soul.

A "Lost Soul" and a "Captured Hero/Evil Character" are different, and are governed by different rules. Captured characters (minus demons) share a lot of the traits that Lost Souls have, however, they are still different card types.

They why did the early capture cards have the line; "Treat X as a Lost Soul"? This was removed to save space and because it was seen to be obvious, not because it stopped happening.

Deafening Spirit (Pi)

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 1 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate and discard the last good Enhancement played this battle. You may treat this card as an Evil Character until the end of this battle. • Play As: Negate and discard the last good Enhancement played this battle. You may convert this card to an Evil Character until the end of this battle. • Identifiers: NT, Connected with Demons • Verse: Mark 9:25 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

Was it ever decided on whether or not DS loses it's enhancement status when it becomes an EC? If so then a captured hero that is "Treated Like a Lost Soul" would cease to be a hero and then become a Lost Soul. It's rediculous to have the same phrase mean one thing on one card but something different on another card.
Just one more thing...

Offline Josh

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2012, 08:11:14 AM »
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Was it ever decided on whether or not DS loses it's enhancement status when it becomes an EC? If so then a captured hero that is "Treated Like a Lost Soul" would cease to be a hero and then become a Lost Soul. It's rediculous to have the same phrase mean one thing on one card but something different on another card.

I don't think this is a good example.  DS changes based on its ability.  A hero being captured becomes a Captured Hero by game rule.

What I'm saying is that they are still characters but also treated as Lost Souls. Redoubter is saying that they are no longer characters and lose their everything. Just because it says treat as a LS doesn't mean its not a Hero. The card still holds its name, type, Identifiers etc. it just has a new status, Captured.

He's not saying they lose everything.  They lose one identifier and gain another.  The one thing they do lose is that they are no longer Characters (and therefore no longer Heroes or Evil Characters) and they become Lost Souls (and therefore are a Captured Character).  That is the only change.  David is still David, even if he is a Lost Soul.  There's no game rule that says you can't have a card that is both a Lost Soul and has the identifier "David".

If captured characters are still characters (by your reasoning), then they can be targeted by Haman's Plot, banded into battle, placed under deck by Invoking Terror, etc.  None of these are true.  Lost Soul and Character are mutually exclusive identifiers.  Lost Soul and Captured Character are not.

If you can find a REG quote backing your statement above, then we can consider and discuss.  Until then, it is just your opinion.
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Offline Drrek

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2012, 08:54:39 AM »
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If captured characters are still characters (by your reasoning), then they can be targeted by Haman's Plot, banded into battle, placed under deck by Invoking Terror, etc.  None of these are true.  Lost Soul and Character are mutually exclusive identifiers.  Lost Soul and Captured Character are not.


That would not entirely be true, if captured characters were still characters, they would not be able to be banded into battle (because they are neutral, and not good or evil), and would not be able to be placed under deck by invoking terror (because it targets a human hero, and captured heroes are not heroes), but they would be able to be targeted by haman's plot.

Not that any of that matters, since captured character are not characters.
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Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2012, 01:32:16 PM »
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ok now im confused is a captured hero in rc a character or not.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Capture question
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2012, 02:03:55 PM »
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I feel this discussion has shifted to a different question entirely. For clarity that should probably get its own thread.

Regarding the original question, would it be possible to get an elder to write up an explanation of how capture and control functions? Currently the REG says nothing about it, and it does make a difference when dealing with duplicate unique characters.

 


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