Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Perri on January 24, 2011, 07:00:18 PM
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Does a character's cannot be negated ability end once that character is no longer in battle? For example, if Thomas plays drawn out on moses, when moses enters battle, does the protection get negated? I'm pretty sure it does, but clarification, would be great.
Thomas: Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 7 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: Enhancements used by Thomas cannot be negated. May band to Matthew
Drawn Out: Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Take an O.T. male human Hero from deck, discard pile, or hand and put it in territory. Place this card on that Hero. Protect that Hero from evil discard abilities.
Moses: Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 8 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate all special abilities on characters and enhancements (except this ability).
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Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.
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Whether or not it's played by a CBN hero? Can you point me to where this is in the reg or rulebook? You may have possibly just become my best fried.
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Whether or not it's played by a CBN hero? Can you point me to where this is in the reg or rulebook? You may have possibly just become my best fried.
I'm unsure of where it is in the REG, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes, regardless of whether the hero is CBN or not.
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The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.
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The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.
How does this work with enhancements/heroes that discard enhancements from territory? I guess I'm a little confused about the implications/mechanics of placed enhancements.
-C_S
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If it doesn't negate them, their SA would remain active for the rest of the phase.*
*Atleast I assume so. I'm not very good with rules.
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I think I'm a bit confused now. Basically what I want to do is place drawn out or melchizedek's blessing on moses and do very awesome things. From what I gathered so far it seems like it doesn't work, which brings me back to the original question, if I place it with a CBN hero does that CBN last, or does it end after the battle that it was played in?
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Sorry, my bad. I didn't read your first post, just SomeKitten's :P. I have no idea on your's, but I would say it stays CBN beings changing time doesn't change the fact it was played on Thomas while he was active.
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I agree with sauce.
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I think I'm a bit confused now. Basically what I want to do is place drawn out or melchizedek's blessing on moses and do very awesome things. From what I gathered so far it seems like it doesn't work, which brings me back to the original question, if I place it with a CBN hero does that CBN last, or does it end after the battle that it was played in?
That is a very interesting question... Does the SA on the placed enhancement remain CBN after the battle ends? I definitely want to hear the result of this one.
-C_S
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We have a rule that you can't negate the placement of enhancements after the phase, however the ability on them still can be. So in the following battles Moses will target and negate it, since after the initial battle it's not treated as an enhancement used by Thomas anymore.
He will still be protected from Discard whilst in territory, but I'm not sure that helps much.
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This brings me to another question then, if it doesn't count as being used by Thomas, does it instead start counting as being used by Moses, or is it just there?
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It's just there - as a placed enhancement it doesn't need to be 'used' by anybody, so it simply is.
Sorry, that was unclear - It doesn't need to be used by anybody post placement, It still needs to be played on somebody to be placed initially.
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Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.
An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.
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Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.
An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.
So Drawn Out would have to be discarded by an enhancement/character/artifact in order to, for lack of better term/phrase, "negate it?" That is very interesting.
-C_S
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Pol, do you have precedence for that? I'm not arguing it, and I think you may be right, It just seems odd to me that Thomas' ongoing ability which ends after battle would continue to affect a card forever. It seems to me that after the turn in which its placed Thomas' cbn stops to affect it, and moses then negates it if he enters battle.....
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It's one of the core rules.
Something that may heavily affect the ruling is the definition of "play," but we don't have one of those right now.
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Good, we're in 100% agreement, I was curious if that was your position. I'll see what progress is being made on that definition with the other Elders.
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We have plenty of "play as"
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And lots of "Play D'oh!"
;)
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Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.
An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.
There is currently a discussion among the Elders regarding this. There had been a proposal for an encompassing definition of 'play' and 'use' brought up several months ago, but it went unresolved and had been lost. Thanks to RDT joining the ranks, it has been brought up again, and we will hopefully have something soon.
As to this precise situation, I agree with Pol about Drawn Out (a placed enhancement that is continuously active is always CBN if it was played CBN) but depending on how the definition of play is worked out, it may not be true with Weapon Class enhancements. We will keep everyone updated on that front.
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There is currently a discussion among the Elders regarding this. There had been a proposal for an encompassing definition of 'play' and 'use' brought up several months ago, but it went unresolved and had been lost. Thanks to RDT joining the ranks, it has been brought up again, and we will hopefully have something soon.
Before I jump right in, I'd like to say that my following response is intended to be respectful and constructive advice. I figure if I preface what I say, the tone of my message won't be misconstrued.
I would suggest that two Elders (primary and backup) are assigned to be minute-takers, who are in charge of recording and documenting discussions on the Elder-side of the boards. Hopefully, this will prevent the loss of important discussions and/or decisions.
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Thanks for the post STAMP
'Had been lost' hereby means was buried under 7 pages of other ruling threads.
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Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.
So is this correct or not? (even if it's not played with a CBN character).
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Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.
So is this correct or not? (even if it's not played with a CBN character).
The placement becomes CBN but the actual ability can be negated.
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Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.
So is this correct or not? (even if it's not played with a CBN character).
The "placed" part is CBN; the rest of the enhancement's ability is generally not, unless it was CBN when it was placed (as in the Thomas scenario).
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I would suggest that two Elders (primary and backup) are assigned to be minute-takers, who are in charge of recording and documenting discussions on the Elder-side of the boards. Hopefully, this will prevent the loss of important discussions and/or decisions.
A good suggestion STAMP, and RDT is correct--lost just means that the discussion was never completed (usually because another issue came up) and ended up getting buried.
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Part of the minute-taking would be to maintain a status of each discussion/thread/decision/etc. Things like:
initiated
currently discussed
assigned (to some other elder)
pending
completed, awaiting documenting in (REG/corrections thread/etc.)
completed
etc.
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So as far as things go right now, I can give moses a CBN protected from discard abilities, yes?
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So as far as things go right now, I can give moses a CBN protected from discard abilities, yes?
Yes.
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lol alot of good it will do you vs herods though with cbp captures mwahaha ;D ;D ;D
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Clearly you haven't seen a Gold/Silver/Green Moses get CBN protect from capture, convert, removal, and discard, have you? ;D ;D ;D
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lol oh dude now your playing with fire lol i don't know you so ill play nice but perhaps we need to play t1 some time ;D ;D ;D
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Clearly you haven't seen a Gold/Silver/Green Moses get CBN protect from capture, convert, removal, and discard, have you? ;D ;D ;D
Sounds great, but it will lead to a ruling that only one placed enhancement may be played on a character at any given time, if it hasn't already occurred. (But I like your style)
-C_S
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The color additions and the capture convert removal are set asides, and I would be totally okay with only one placed enhancement allowed to be on a character at a time, that seems reasonable.
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Clearly you haven't seen a Gold/Silver/Green Moses get CBN protect from capture, convert, removal, and discard, have you? ;D ;D ;D
Sounds great, but it will lead to a ruling that only one placed enhancement may be played on a character at any given time, if it hasn't already occurred. (But I like your style)
-C_S
He only needs one enhancement placed on Moses.
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Clearly you haven't seen a Gold/Silver/Green Moses get CBN protect from capture, convert, removal, and discard, have you? ;D ;D ;D
Sounds great, but it will lead to a ruling that only one placed enhancement may be played on a character at any given time, if it hasn't already occurred. (But I like your style)
-C_S
He only needs one enhancement placed on Moses.
I see! Very tricky indeed!
-C_S
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what? no protect from shuffle? :)
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Sadly no. But I feel like a Moses that can only be stopped by numbers (good luck) and Grapes is pretty good. Unless you have any ideas. :(
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Getting stopped by higher numbers isn't a very unlikely proposition. Though if a deck lets you get Moses set up through 8 turns of set-aside, it deserves to lose.
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yeah right
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n all honesty, 8 turns isn't that long.. even then, the silver/green addition isn't really necessary, but is nice if there's a few turns where no souls are drawn, he really only needs three turns,.. Also, numbers are easy to take care of, Covenant of Moses is a 7/3 (I think) name on name bonus. Ehud's dagger is a CBN negate that can deal with any CBP.
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heh now you gone and done it we gotta schedule a game lol pm me when your available and gimmie your hamachi info
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Also, numbers are easy to take care of, Covenant of Moses is a 7/3 (I think) name on name bonus. Ehud's dagger is a CBN negate that can deal with any CBP.
Your definition of "easy" is suspect. After Covenant with Moses (admittedly awesome), you're walled by every CBP band.
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How do you figure? I honestly can't think of that many CBP bands that are that hard to deal with if all your playing is number, and CBP's can be dealt with especially if Moses Rod is up, plague of flies nukes a banding chain and is recurrable with Agur, plague of hail gives a second CBN negate that will deal with CBP enhancements. Plus, if it's something moses can't handle, that's what artifacts are for.
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Super-Moses...I like it. :)
I would use a defense that has the ability to discard a dominant from opponent's deck (i.e. Confusion) to get rid of Grapes. (Or if you don't get Grapes, maybe you get SoG which is obviously another huge advantage.) Judas' Plot could be the most helpful.
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Seems fitting for Moses to be so powerful. Still, you need something against Darius' Decree.
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Believe me when I say that the Super Moses is real. I have seen him in blurry pictures. Be afraid...be very afraid! :o
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Kerith Ravine protects from DD, and confusion is something I've thought about. Was thinking of remaking the deck and adding some priest-ness into it for urim and thummim just to hand check, but I haven't really worked out the details yet. I appreciate the suggestions, I totally forgot about Judas' plot.