Author Topic: Cannot be negated? (Read 4870 times)

Perri · « **on:** January 24, 2011, 07:00:18 PM »

Does a character's cannot be negated ability end once that character is no longer in battle? For example, if Thomas plays drawn out on moses, when moses enters battle, does the protection get negated? I'm pretty sure it does, but clarification, would be great.

Thomas: Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 7 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: Enhancements used by Thomas cannot be negated. May band to Matthew

Drawn Out: Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Take an O.T. male human Hero from deck, discard pile, or hand and put it in territory. Place this card on that Hero. Protect that Hero from evil discard abilities.

Moses: Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 8 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate all special abilities on characters and enhancements (except this ability).

SomeKittens · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:15:34 PM »

Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.

Perri · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:19:45 PM »

Whether or not it's played by a CBN hero? Can you point me to where this is in the reg or rulebook? You may have possibly just become my best fried.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:22:45 PM »

Quote from: Perri on January 24, 2011, 07:19:45 PM

Whether or not it's played by a CBN hero? Can you point me to where this is in the reg or rulebook? You may have possibly just become my best fried.

I'm unsure of where it is in the REG, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes, regardless of whether the hero is CBN or not.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:25:15 PM »

The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:36:32 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on January 24, 2011, 07:25:15 PM

The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.

How does this work with enhancements/heroes that discard enhancements from territory? I guess I'm a little confused about the implications/mechanics of placed enhancements.

-C_S

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:39:42 PM »

If it doesn't negate them, their SA would remain active for the rest of the phase.*

*Atleast I assume so. I'm not very good with rules.

Perri · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:42:05 PM »

I think I'm a bit confused now. Basically what I want to do is place drawn out or melchizedek's blessing on moses and do very awesome things. From what I gathered so far it seems like it doesn't work, which brings me back to the original question, if I place it with a CBN hero does that CBN last, or does it end after the battle that it was played in?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:47:33 PM »

Sorry, my bad. I didn't read your first post, just SomeKitten's

. I have no idea on your's, but I would say it stays CBN beings changing time doesn't change the fact it was played on Thomas while he was active.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:55:02 PM »

I agree with sauce.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:55:16 PM »

Quote from: Perri on January 24, 2011, 07:42:05 PM

I think I'm a bit confused now. Basically what I want to do is place drawn out or melchizedek's blessing on moses and do very awesome things. From what I gathered so far it seems like it doesn't work, which brings me back to the original question, if I place it with a CBN hero does that CBN last, or does it end after the battle that it was played in?

That is a very interesting question... Does the SA on the placed enhancement remain CBN after the battle ends? I definitely want to hear the result of this one.

-C_S

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2011, 07:59:28 PM »

We have a rule that you can't negate the placement of enhancements after the phase, however the ability on them still can be. So in the following battles Moses will target and negate it, since after the initial battle it's not treated as an enhancement used by Thomas anymore.

He will still be protected from Discard whilst in territory, but I'm not sure that helps much.

Perri · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2011, 08:20:24 PM »

This brings me to another question then, if it doesn't count as being used by Thomas, does it instead start counting as being used by Moses, or is it just there?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2011, 08:29:20 PM »

It's just there - as a placed enhancement it doesn't need to be 'used' by anybody, so it simply is.

Sorry, that was unclear - It doesn't need to be used by anybody post placement, It still needs to be played on somebody to be placed initially.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2011, 01:15:55 AM »

Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.

An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2011, 02:55:41 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 25, 2011, 01:15:55 AM

Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.

An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.

So Drawn Out would have to be discarded by an enhancement/character/artifact in order to, for lack of better term/phrase, "negate it?" That is very interesting.

-C_S

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2011, 03:26:32 AM »

Pol, do you have precedence for that? I'm not arguing it, and I think you may be right, It just seems odd to me that Thomas' ongoing ability which ends after battle would continue to affect a card forever. It seems to me that after the turn in which its placed Thomas' cbn stops to affect it, and moses then negates it if he enters battle.....

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2011, 10:25:12 AM »

It's one of the core rules.

Something that may heavily affect the ruling is the definition of "play," but we don't have one of those right now.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2011, 10:28:12 AM »

Good, we're in 100% agreement, I was curious if that was your position. I'll see what progress is being made on that definition with the other Elders.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2011, 10:29:05 AM »

We have plenty of "play as"

STAMP · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2011, 10:42:29 AM »

And lots of "Play D'oh!"

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2011, 11:57:59 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 25, 2011, 01:15:55 AM

Perri, I'm sorry there have been so many wrong answers in this thread. It's been mostly correctly answered now except for one more clarification. If Drawn Out was placed by Thomas, it does indeed remain completely CBN for the duration of its stay. Cards either have or do not have CBN status at the moment they are played, and nothing changes that ever.

An example would be if Spy enters battle with Ram's Horn active and plays Warrior's Spear. Provided Spy survives the battle, Warrior's Spear will continue to be CBI indefinitely.

There is currently a discussion among the Elders regarding this. There had been a proposal for an encompassing definition of 'play' and 'use' brought up several months ago, but it went unresolved and had been lost. Thanks to RDT joining the ranks, it has been brought up again, and we will hopefully have something soon.

As to this precise situation, I agree with Pol about Drawn Out (a placed enhancement that is continuously active is always CBN if it was played CBN) but depending on how the definition of play is worked out, it may not be true with Weapon Class enhancements. We will keep everyone updated on that front.

STAMP · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2011, 12:09:30 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 25, 2011, 11:57:59 AM

There is currently a discussion among the Elders regarding this. There had been a proposal for an encompassing definition of 'play' and 'use' brought up several months ago, but it went unresolved and had been lost. Thanks to RDT joining the ranks, it has been brought up again, and we will hopefully have something soon.

Before I jump right in, I'd like to say that my following response is intended to be respectful and constructive advice. I figure if I preface what I say, the tone of my message won't be misconstrued.

I would suggest that two Elders (primary and backup) are assigned to be minute-takers, who are in charge of recording and documenting discussions on the Elder-side of the boards. Hopefully, this will prevent the loss of important discussions and/or decisions.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2011, 12:12:28 PM »

Thanks for the post STAMP

'Had been lost' hereby means was buried under 7 pages of other ruling threads.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2011, 12:20:16 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on January 24, 2011, 07:15:34 PM

Placed cards become CBN the phase after they are placed.

So is this correct or not? (even if it's not played with a CBN character).

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Author Topic: Cannot be negated? (Read 4870 times)

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