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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: BubbleBoy on August 16, 2011, 06:09:48 PM

Title: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 16, 2011, 06:09:48 PM
So, if I activate Bronze Laver in a fortress, can I activate an artifact that I draw from its ability in my artifact pile? Or do you choose which artifacts you are going to activate before their abilities activate?
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: I am Knot a Blonde! on August 16, 2011, 06:20:36 PM
Im pretty sure you can only activate one artifact each turn. Therefore, you can only activate the bronze laver, then must activate the next one for your artifact pile next turn.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Nameless on August 16, 2011, 06:23:02 PM
Im pretty sure you can only activate one artifact each turn. Therefore, you can only activate the bronze laver, then must activate the next one for your artifact pile next turn.
i disagree with this
you can have a lot of artifacts/covs/curses up at the same time they just need to be in different places
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: browarod on August 16, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
As far as I know, phase actions like artifact activation can be done in whatever order the turn player chooses, so I don't see why you couldn't do this. It would be like me activating Lampstand on a temple, then playing SoG+NJ, then activating Altar of Ahaz on my artifact pile.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 06:30:07 PM
Something I would rule against. Artifact management can happen at any time in your prep, but only once.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on August 16, 2011, 08:05:04 PM
To the best of my knowledge Pol is incorrect.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Professoralstad on August 16, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
I think Pol might be right, but I'm not sure if its written anywhere. I know you can't, for example, deactivate Lampstand, play an evil dom, and then reactivate it. If you could do as BBoy suggested, then this would be possible by deactivating Lampy from Art Pile, then later playing it in a temple.

So if Pol isn't correct, I think he should be.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on August 16, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
Right, but thats manipulating one artifact twice. That's another can of worms entirely.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on August 16, 2011, 08:44:48 PM
I assumed that you choose each artifact to activate one at a time and played this way at Nationals. None of my opponents ever questioned it.

For example, I activated The Bronze Laver in Herod's Temple, carried out its ability, activated Given Over to Egypt in Pithom, carried out its ability, then activated Unknown Nation in my artifact pile.

I'm definitely not saying that's correct. All I'm saying is that I assumed you chose each individually and that none of my opponents questioned me doing it.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Gabe on August 16, 2011, 09:17:33 PM
According to the rule book there are certain actions that can be performed during your preparation phase in any order you choose.

One of those actions is Artifact activation on the Artifact pile.

Another of those actions is to add/remove cards to a Fortress according to the "holds" ability on that Fortress.

As far as I know the rulebook (and RDT) are correct on this matter.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: ChristianSoldier on August 16, 2011, 09:56:25 PM
I had always assumed that as long as they were activated in different places (artifact pile, temple, magician, etc) you could do them at different times.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 10:03:15 PM
Is this rule book more recent than G/H? If not, it's suspect. In fact, wrong, we've been ruling for years you can't deactivate LotS, play doms, then activate it somewhere else.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on August 16, 2011, 10:07:18 PM
Again, thats dealing with one artifact multiple times, a different can of worms.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: ChristianSoldier on August 16, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Reading the REG rules for Holds and artifact activation I see no reason why you can't activate artifacts at different times during the prep phase.

This doesn't mean that there could be a rule about having to activate all artifacts without effects between them.

Although can't you activate an artifact from your hand? so even if you did draw an artifact from Bronze Laver you should be able to activate it in your artifact pile because you are still doing artifact activation.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Gabe on August 16, 2011, 10:25:54 PM
Is this rule book more recent than G/H?

I looked at the online rulebook in the REG. It does have some updates that are not found in the G/H rulebook but it's mostly the same.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 10:27:07 PM
The rules are clearly archaic and were written at a time when it wouldn't matter. If they're largely unchanged it's because, well, they haven't really been revisited. RDT, not only is there not a rule against activating the same artifact you just deactivated, but that's what activating an artifact is. You have less of a legal leg to stand on than the Professor and I.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: browarod on August 16, 2011, 10:50:46 PM
The rules are clearly archaic and were written at a time when it wouldn't matter.
Is there some reason it all of a sudden matters now, or that the rules governing the situation are improper? If being able to play other cards between activating an artifact on the A-pile and activating one somewhere else was broken, someone would have undoubtedly made some sick combo using it already. Unless you can prove that it's somehow inconsistent or bad (other than simply claiming "they're archaic, so there", especially without backing), I don't know why time would be taken to change anything.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 10:55:58 PM
The backing is that it's been consistently ruled you can't do that. Ever since Lampstand came out people have been trying to deactivate it, play doms, then reactivate it in the temple, and they've been told no.
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Bobbert on August 16, 2011, 10:58:04 PM
...not only is there not a rule against activating the same artifact you just deactivated, but that's what activating an artifact is.

But we're not talking about deactivating Lampy, we're talking about whether you can use an artifact with an instant ability that's in a fort, then activate a different artifact. The professor was the one who brought up activating something twice. In case you've forgotten, the question was

So, if I activate Bronze Laver in a fortress, can I activate an artifact that I draw from its ability in my artifact pile? Or do you choose which artifacts you are going to activate before their abilities activate?

I believe this is a legal play, but I've been wrong before. Actually, I've been wrong more than I've been right.  :P
Title: Re: Bronze Laver in a temple
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 11:04:06 PM
I would say it's a legal play too, because you're not conducting any other action in between activating artifacts, the drawing is a function of the first artifact you activated, and then you activate the second one.
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