Cactus Game Design Message Boards

A variation on Option #2 is the precedent that if a Hero withdraws from battle that Hero is not allowed to re-enter the same battle.  We could extend that to enhancements that are withdrawn from battle. 

I am not saying I favor that variation over cards withdrawn from battle don't return to hand until end of battle.  It's just another approach.

I like either of these options.

...The point is that it is NOT FUN to watch an opponent take a 10-minute turn where you do nothing but watch.  The point of the game is fun and fellowship.  10-minute solitaire turns are neither fun nor fellowship...

On that note, I am hoping something can be done to remove the possibility for start-of-game, three-turn wins.  It happened to me recently, and although considered rare, I find it happens only slightly less than some of the other scenarios mentioned in this thread that promote NO fun and fellowship.  I have tossed around and tested some ideas but I don't feel qualified enough to be confident in those ideas.  I was hoping that many of the distinguished individuals on this thread could devise a good solution that is also good for the game.

Ideas??

A variation on Option #2 is the precedent that if a Hero withdraws from battle that Hero is not allowed to re-enter the same battle.  We could extend that to enhancements that are withdrawn from battle.

I think this option still allows for abuse.  It's harder to keep track of and enforce.  It's not easy to keep track of which Prosperity/Book of Hosai/Reach of Desperation/etc I drew this turn and which one(s) I returned to my hand.  As a judge it would be a nightmare to try to recreate the scenario to figure it all out.

I am not saying I favor that variation over cards withdrawn from battle don't return to hand until end of battle.  It's just another approach.

This seems like the best option to me.  It's easy to enforce, prevents the abuse of playing and replaying cards and allows "withdraw" to work as originally intended.

The only flaw I see in this option is that a person could still take a 20 minute turn if they drew the right cards in the right order.  It becomes less likely, because they would almost have to stack their deck, but it's still possible, without being able to withdraw a Hero.

If the intent of the change is to keep the "20 minute solitaire turn" from ever happening again then I think option #3 is the only way to ensure that doesn't happen.

I think if we go with option 2, plus the cards coming in the next set, that this may be enough to counter the problem.

For all you spoiler junkies out there I'd just like to point out that Rob just said "the next set".  He also mentioned that it would have counters to this problem.  That doesn't necessarily make this years release a "set", he could be talking about a "set" to be released in years to come.  Since we know that he'd like this solved soon, I'm going to venture out and say that we're probably getting a new set this year, not a starter deck like many have speculated.

"cards withdrawn from battle don't return to hand until end of battle" is an easy rule to teach and enforce.  If it also makes things work the way they were originally intended, all the better.  I think this sounds like the best remaining option.

P.S.  I agree that there are good cards for countering CTB mismatch.  I just wanted to take the opportunity to encourage no more cards that lead to CTB mismatch to be made.

P.P.S.  I think that when Rob uses the word "set" he could just mean sheet of 100 cards (like the last 2 sets).  A starter deck would also be made from a sheet of 100 cards.

Our group stills plays with pre-prep phase in non-tourny games.  It has a few problems, but I think it makes the game A LOT more fair.

FWIW, "set" is typically used as a catch-all for "the cards that are coming out this year" and by itself is not a word that really means anything about the nature of the next... set.

Drat, I was hoping that Rob had thrown us a bone. 

Quote from: The Schaef on February 03, 2009, 01:51:50 PM

FWIW, "set" is typically used as a catch-all for "the cards that are coming out this year" and by itself is not a word that really means anything about the nature of the next... set.

Drat, I was hoping that Rob had thrown us a bone. 

Yippee!  Starters still have a chance.

Tim, I like that idea, except it seems to give player 1 a huge disadvantage.  He know is the last to draw and has the most LS.

interesting, I didn't realize that the first player chooses who will go first....  I like it more now

I don't think that is a good idea for a few reason:

1.  It kills a lot of strategies that rely on lost soul limits.

2.  It requires plays to always have a timer to play.

3.  It hurts new players who take longer.

4.  And finally, it would have little effect because there would still be a lost soul limit because decks have 7 or more.

The problem though is that the person who draws the most lost souls and gets to choose who goes first may have more lost souls to rescue the first turn than the opponent.  That's what happened in my game.  I drew one lost soul.  My opponent drew two lost souls, one being the hopper.  He chose to go first obviously.

The problem though is that the person who draws the most lost souls and gets to choose who goes first may have more lost souls to rescue the first turn than the opponent.  That's what happened in my game.  I drew one lost soul.  My opponent drew two lost souls, one being the hopper.  He chose to go first obviously.

I completely agree. It should be amount of ls in territory before either turn starts.

Actually that rule change is in the works if I remember correctly.

Quote from: BrianGabe on February 03, 2009, 02:00:52 PM

Quote from: The Schaef on February 03, 2009, 01:51:50 PM

FWIW, "set" is typically used as a catch-all for "the cards that are coming out this year" and by itself is not a word that really means anything about the nature of the next... set.

Drat, I was hoping that Rob had thrown us a bone. 

Yippee!  Starters still have a chance.

And consider this: We know that Mr Rob has taken inventory just recently in the "Fort Knox of Fun". The amount of stock piled old card packs would effect my decision, as a business man, as to whether to put out a starter deck, or one more tin. He might risk "tin fatigue" one more time to thin the inventory, but it would be a risk.
So, Mr Rob: What card set do you wish we would all buy en mass to get it off your books? I'd that for you...

Quote from: metalpsalm on February 03, 2009, 05:39:20 PM

He might risk "tin fatigue" one more time to thin the inventory, but it would be a risk.

Fatigue? I'm closing in on Tin Rebellion... 

Well, I feel ya, but look at it from Rob's POV. Jeeze Louise, in this economy?  We're lucky there's even a game to complain about!
Anyway, the tins have their good points