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I decided to keep this separate from the current discussion about "Implied Search".  It is similar in thought process though.

If I exchange AUTO with a Judge in my discard pile, can I heal AUTO after battle with Love?  If Exchanges can be Searches, then I'd argue that an Exchange to the discard pile is also a Discard. 

The REG definition of Heal says that "If a character was discarded earlier in the turn", it is a healable target.  The general description of Heal says "A heal ​ability can be used to remove the effects of a discard".

To be clear, there will be an official ruling made once all of the scenarios have been considered by the Elders. I appreciate you guys bringing up more questions like this, and maybe this thread can be the think-tank for more stuff like this. But for the sake of a newer player stumbling upon this thread, none of these instances will be considered official until the Elders make an announcement. Please continue throwing out examples of this nature!

to the others responding about this topic in general.

I will also say that if you were looking for why there is no inconsistency in the current rules here, it is because we have a definition for "Search" that AutO meets, but not a definition for "discarded" that exchanging to discard meets.  Could it meet in the future?  Sure, but that's not how the rules read right now (as Gabe pointed out).  But since we are talking about one scenario with an established, written definition, and another without, that would be why you have different treatments of those situations.

And as the others said, please keep examples where you see issues coming.

For those of you not involved in the discussions, here...

[image removed]

is a computer simulation of the elders tackling this topic.

Was that Justin or John who creamed that guy? It happened so fast I couldn't tell.

and of course, you have Mr.Underwood playing safety in the back out of frame. just like in Ultimate Frisbee.

Quote from: Redoubter on May 20, 2016, 06:34:24 PM

I will also say that if you were looking for why there is no inconsistency in the current rules here, it is because we have a definition for "Search" that AutO meets, but not a definition for "discarded" that exchanging to discard meets. 

The REG 3.1.0 definition for Discard says:

"A discard ability removes a card from its location and moves it to its owner's discard pile."

This is exactly what AUTO does when he exchanges to a discard pile.

If special abilities are going to be parsed down into what they physically do instead of letting different abilities be treated as their own thing, then I don't see how this can be argued.

Imo, That is just describing what discard does, not the definition of a discard. I think that each ability should be it's own, so exchange is not a discard or a heal, just an exchange.

AutO does not discard himself, he exchanges himself into a chosen location, which can be the discard pile. If AutO exchanges himself to the discard pile, he was not discarded.

That's the same reasoning used by those arguing against Heal being a Search:

"If AutO a healing ability exchanges himself to the discard pile heals a character in Discard, he was not discarded the discard pile was not Searched."

Isn't that really the logic behind the Heal = Search ruling?  If you can describe an ability via another ability exactly, then it meets the definition of that other ability? 

I think I've found another example that is relevant:  Set-aside abilities. 

Set-aside abilities are characterized by two things:  Setting aside the cards initially, and returning the cards to territory later.  For set-asides with no duration, technically they don't need returned, but they can be, at any time.  The returning of the characters to territory is not characterized as a "Return to territory" ability, even though that is what is actually happening. 

"Return to territory" describes an actual game action and is an actual ability - see Ezra's Journey.  So set-aside abilities, instead of being defined as two abilities to match what they actually do - an instantaneous set-aside ability paired with an ongoing pending triggered "Return to territory" ability - are defined as one ability that does two different things.

And just so everyone is clear, I prefer set-aside abilities to be "their own ability", meaning they are defined as one instantaneous ability.  I've found a combo that would abuse a certain card with a set-aside ability if each action of the set-aside ability was defined separately.  The problem is, set-aside abilities look a lot like healing abilities to me now - there's a hidden ability sitting inside each one that's never been defined before.