Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Ok, complicated setup:

Opponent RA's with Asahel, and picks my Elymas (SA not relevant). He then proceeds to kill Elymas with Jaels Nail. I add Madness to battle, and play Destructive Sin on Asahel to negate the CTB.

What happens now?

CTB is CBI.

i've never heard of that.

CTB is CBI.

Wait ... What?  Since when?

If CTB is CBI that is news to me.

I cannot locate any thread discussing this point, perhaps another victim of "The Purge"^tm.  All I can find is this section in the much maligned REG that states:

Instant Abilities > Choose Blocker or Rescuer
How to Play

“Choosing” the character means not choosing all the character(s) that are currently in battle; they all leave and are replaced by the character you choose.  Characters leaving battle may not return to the battle that turn with the exception that the choosing player may select one character just removed and put it back in battle..  The character selected can come from any territory in the field of play or from your hand unless stated otherwise.  The effect may be interrupted or negated by the character(s) being removed if your opponent gains initiative because of the exchange.

You can’t force your opponent to block with a character that cannot enter battle (i.e., an ignore condition).  However, with regard to site access, you can force a character into battle that turns the battle into a battle challenge.  Your opponent controls the new character for this turn and any abilities on that character.  For example, if you choose Jacob for your opponent to rescue with, your opponent may choose to band with a silver brigade Hero if possible.  If the character survives, it is returned to the owner’s territory.  If the character is discarded, it should be sent to the owner’s discard pile.

When your opponent has played a character that you know will be difficult to defeat, you simply select a different character, which your opponent will have to use and return the original character to his own territory.  It is advantageous to select a character from your hand or from any player’s territory that is of a color brigade that your opponent does not have in his deck.  Play the “choose opponent” card after your opponent has played several enhancements; unless you select a new character of the same color brigade, all of your opponent’s enhancement cards in the field of battle are discarded (but not negated).  It is also a good strategy to NOT give your opponent initiative while replacing their characters so they can’t immediately negate it.

Given that It looks to me like it can interrupted and negated.  Thoughts?

I am 99% sure that's not accurate.

I found what Pol is talking about in the new REG (that Tim gave to the public) under Choose Opponent > Special Conditions:

"A choose opponent ability used before a blocker is presented cannot be interrupted after the ability has completed."

So if I rescue with Jacob and play Obedience of Noah to choose the blocker you cannot interrupt it.

If I rescue with Leah and play Obedience of Noah after you block you can interrupt it (on the current or new blocker) if you will have initiative after the new blocker is presented.

So CTB before cbi but CTB after can?

Yes.

Question though. That snippet provided also has this:

THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT OFFICIAL.

So.... based on the current official rules, is it negatable?

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 27, 2010, 11:04:49 AM

I read this to state that you can't use an enhancement in battle to stop this--because obviously if you are playing a card on a character the CtB ability has completed. Out of band negates, however, should still work. For example, if I had Unsuccessful active, why wouldn't I be able to use it to negate OoN played pre-emptively on Jacob?

But wouldn't using Unsuccessful be the same as using a negate enhancement?

No.  In order to play an enhancement you must have a character in battle to activate it on. If you play an enhancement on the EC aren't you saying "Yep, that EC is in battle--I will reluctantly use him." At that point the SA of OoN had to complete or you couldn't play the negate enhancement.  Unsuccessful is different.  Your opponent can play OoN and you can say--"No, I don't think so."

Once Obedience of Noah is played, it has "completed".  There's no "Redemption game time" between playing OoN and doing what it says, there is only the physical time of actually choosing the blocker. 

I'm not sure about that. The ruling is that all special abilities on cards must complete before other cards can be played.  If this interpretation of "completed" holds then I am not sure how any ITB would work.

Let's say you have a lone hero in battle. I play an evil enhancement that discards your hero. If the ability "completes" in the sense you use it above, how can you play an ITB?  Put in your terms there is no "Redemption game time" between playing the discard and the hero being discarded.  The purpose of playing an ITB is to create game time.

I bet this ruling was made similarly to the reason that "play an enhancement" abilities are now CBI - not doing so could lead to some ridiculous scenarios (like AOCP being effectively "negated" when ET's ability is negated).

I agree with the general reasoning (although your example is not good given that AoCP is CBN), which is precisely why I think they added the "after the CtB has completed" phrase. In that light, I think we would both agree that allowing Unsuccessful to negate the CtB cannot lead to a ridiculous scenario. This is pretty much why I think the qualified the CBI.