Author Topic: Birth Foretold vs Mayhem (Read 4437 times)

bruce2213 · « **on:** January 28, 2012, 12:08:46 AM »

Birth Foretold (Di)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 1 / 4 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Search deck for Isaac, Samson, John the Baptist, or Son of God. Protect cards with those titles from opponents' cards this turn

Mayhem
Type: Grim Reaper • Brigade: • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Each player must shuffle hand into deck to draw six. • Play As: Each player must shuffle [return] hand into deck to draw six

If I play Birth Foretold to search for Son of God then my opponent plays Mayhem does Son of God get shuffled into my deck or remain in my hand?

lp670sv · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2012, 12:10:27 AM »

I would say no, but wait for an elder to confirm.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2012, 12:12:28 AM »

It gets shuffled into your deck. Birth Foretold defaults to play.

Drrek · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2012, 02:30:12 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on January 28, 2012, 12:12:28 AM

It gets shuffled into your deck. Birth Foretold defaults to play.

correct, I asked this question before and got this answer from an elder, here's the thread if anyone wants to look at it.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/birth-foretold-question/

Master Q · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2012, 02:10:06 PM »

If the protection on BF defaults to play, then why do we have exceptions for DnA and Chamber o' Angels? If Job would be discarded from your hand by an opponent, would he go to DnA? If yes, why can't BF protect cards in your hand, since it also specifies name?

CJSports · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2012, 03:58:03 PM »

I believe the answer to your question is that the ruling is changed. IaH doesn't make Angels go to chamber anymore so...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:49:10 PM »

IaH still makes Angels go to chamber, but your opponent doesn't Discard.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:59:18 PM »

Quote from: Master Q on January 29, 2012, 02:10:06 PM

If the protection on BF defaults to play, then why do we have exceptions for DnA and Chamber o' Angels? If Job would be discarded from your hand by an opponent, would he go to DnA? If yes, why can't BF protect cards in your hand, since it also specifies name?

Those two are not targeting Job/Angels. They are instead abilities, which are targeting the ability that discards.

CJSports · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2012, 05:16:05 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 29, 2012, 04:49:10 PM

IaH still makes Angels go to chamber, but your opponent doesn't Discard.

Oh that's right, I forgot about the instead part but I did here some kind of argument whether they would even go to chambers since they were never in play and chamber defaults to play.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2012, 12:46:01 PM »

Quote from: CJSports on January 29, 2012, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 29, 2012, 04:49:10 PM
IaH still makes Angels go to chamber, but your opponent doesn't Discard.

Oh that's right, I forgot about the instead part but I did here some kind of argument whether they would even go to chambers since they were never in play and chamber defaults to play.

Chamber insteads IaH, which is in play.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:28:38 PM »

So... does BF protect SoG in any way shape or form? I'm not complaining if it doesn't... the protect on the Heroes is a fun enough kicker.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:29:50 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on January 30, 2012, 03:28:38 PM

So... does BF protect SoG in any way shape or form? I'm not complaining if it doesn't... the protect on the Heroes is a fun enough kicker.

No. Abilities default to play, even if they specifically target a card, apparently.

lp670sv · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:32:07 PM »

How can it default to anything if it has a valid target? That would be like me defaulting to punch Randall when Whitsun made the pun. (SK is pretty much the only one that will get that)

Red Warrior · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:41:33 PM »

The game has always defaulted to "in play", which I am fine with. I was just wondering if there are any "in play" situations with SoG. Also... I've always played dominants into the discard pile, but I don't see anything in the REG about this: Are dominants ever in play?

If so, can SoG be protected from the "place" effect of Judas' Plot?

Judas’ Plot (Di)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place on your N.T. human Evil Character: If an opponent's good Dominant rescues or discards a card, discard this Enhancement instead to place that Dominant under deck. Protect bearer from conversion. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Mark 14:10 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:44:42 PM »

Dominants are definitely placed in play before they are discarded. You can "play" a dominant even if there's no valid target (NJ by itself, or any evil doms while Lampstand is up) to get rid of it without entering the discard phase.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on January 30, 2012, 03:32:07 PM

How can it default to anything if it has a valid target? That would be like me defaulting to punch Randall when Whitsun made the pun. (SK is pretty much the only one that will get that)

Isn't that how it usually worked?

Quote from: Red Warrior on January 30, 2012, 03:41:33 PM

The game has always defaulted to "in play", which I am fine with. I was just wondering if there are any "in play" situations with SoG. Also... I've always played dominants into the discard pile, but I don't see anything in the REG about this: Are dominants ever in play?

If so, can SoG be protected from the "place" effect of Judas' Plot?

Judas’ Plot (Di)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place on your N.T. human Evil Character: If an opponent's good Dominant rescues or discards a card, discard this Enhancement instead to place that Dominant under deck. Protect bearer from conversion. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Mark 14:10 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

A tentative "yes" from here.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:59:31 PM »

I agree with Randall's second comment, regarding Judas' Plot. You can protect cards from Protection.

lp670sv · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2012, 04:01:45 PM »

Sometimes the puns blurred together and I wasn't sure who actually said it, so I may have hit the wrong person on occasion but it didn't make anymore sense than this ruling

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2012, 04:04:30 PM »

The main argument against letting Son of God be protected by Birth Foretold is something I'm just now understanding. Abilities default to play, right? So if we say that Birth Foretold can protect Son of God, even if it's in hand, that means that if I play a card that says "discard a hero," I would be able to discard any hero, because it specifically specifies "hero".

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2012, 05:20:15 PM »

BF: "Yo, SoG! Dude, I've got your back."
SoG: "Protection?!? I don't need no stinkin' protection when I'm in play."

browarod · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:15:35 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 30, 2012, 03:44:42 PM

Dominants are definitely placed in play before they are discarded.

Oh? Which zone do they get played into? If I have a fortress that protects good cards in my territory from opponents, can I play SoG to my territory to protect it from Judas' Plot?

As far as I know, dominants do not enter the field of play when they are used (except, of course, for Glory of the Lord and Doubt).

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:01:57 PM »

Quote from: browarod on January 31, 2012, 03:15:35 PM

As far as I know, dominants do not enter the field of play when they are used (except, of course, for Glory of the Lord and Doubt).

Except you can definitely play dominants to get them of your hand. The only way you can do that is if they do enter play.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 31, 2012, 04:01:57 PM

Quote from: browarod on January 31, 2012, 03:15:35 PM
As far as I know, dominants do not enter the field of play when they are used (except, of course, for Glory of the Lord and Doubt).

Except you can definitely play dominants to get them of your hand. The only way you can do that is if they do enter play.

I'd say they enter something. Given there's no context, "play" sounds good.

browarod · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:56:01 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 31, 2012, 04:01:57 PM

Except you can definitely play dominants to get them of your hand. The only way you can do that is if they do enter play.

I never said you couldn't. Am I missing something in the rules that says cards have to "enter play" to leave your hand?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:58:17 PM »

Quote from: browarod on January 31, 2012, 04:56:01 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 31, 2012, 04:01:57 PM
Except you can definitely play dominants to get them of your hand. The only way you can do that is if they do enter play.
I never said you couldn't. Am I missing something in the rules that says cards have to "enter play" to leave your hand?

I'm not sure what else "playing" a dominant would do, but put them in play.

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Author Topic: Birth Foretold vs Mayhem (Read 4437 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

browarod

Chronic Apathy

browarod

Chronic Apathy