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Author Topic: Benjamin  (Read 2346 times)

browarod

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Benjamin
« on: December 06, 2009, 04:05:34 PM »
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If I band my opponent's Benjamin into battle with Unified Kingdom (interrupt and band OT human heroes) on ET, does he get discarded after battle?

Benjamin
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 1 / 1 • Class: None • Special Ability: If all of your human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 49:27 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 4)
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2009, 04:16:02 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on December 06, 2009, 04:05:34 PM
If all of your human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle.

Enlarged the key word. Your means that the owner AND controller of the card needs to have all genesis heroes.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but that's what my gut tells me.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2009, 05:03:25 PM »
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+1 Good ruling.

Although if you were playing TEAMS and pulled in your teammate's Ben while you had non-Genesis heroes in play, then he would be discarded.  Of course you probably wouldn't do that :)
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browarod

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2009, 05:38:42 PM »
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Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:16:02 PM
Your means that the owner AND controller of the card needs to have all genesis heroes.
But what does that mean? He doesn't get discarded but I don't get to use CBN enhancements on him either? Is it as though he doesn't have an SA at all? Defining "your" doesn't tell me how to use the card in this case.
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Offline Lurch

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2009, 05:46:50 PM »
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The way I see it, the "If all hero's are genesis hero's" applies to both parts of the ability.  If you band him in and you have a hero other than a genesis hero, you dont get the cannot be negated status and he dies after the battle.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2009, 06:04:40 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on December 06, 2009, 05:38:42 PM
Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:16:02 PM
Your means that the owner AND controller of the card needs to have all genesis heroes.
But what does that mean? He doesn't get discarded but I don't get to use CBN enhancements on him either? Is it as though he doesn't have an SA at all? Defining "your" doesn't tell me how to use the card in this case.

I would say he neither dies nor gets CBN, because "Your Heroes" cannot be defined in that case, so the whole SA goes out the window.

Again, I have nothing to back myself up, but this is my gut opinion.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2009, 06:49:03 PM »
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Hey,

In Benjamin's ability "your" refers to "human Heroes in play" not to Benjamin himself.  Abilities are read from the perspective of the holder, which you are once you band to Benjamin.  So the condition for discarding Benjamin would be satisfied if you banded to him with ET.

So yes he gets discarded after battle.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2009, 06:50:43 PM »
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Hm... cool!
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2009, 07:16:32 PM »
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but i thought abilities involving 'your' can only be used by the person that retains possession and control of the card? as such, wouldnt the 'your' clause be null if another player banded it into battle?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2009, 07:27:16 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: Master KChief on December 06, 2009, 07:16:32 PM
but i thought abilities involving 'your' can only be used by the person that retains possession and control of the card? as such, wouldnt the 'your' clause be null if another player banded it into battle?

Then you thought incorrectly.  'Your' refers to cards owned and controlled by the player that activated the ability.  That is the extent of the meaning of 'your.'

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2009, 08:11:48 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on December 06, 2009, 07:27:16 PM
Hey,

Quote from: Master KChief on December 06, 2009, 07:16:32 PM
but i thought abilities involving 'your' can only be used by the person that retains possession and control of the card? as such, wouldnt the 'your' clause be null if another player banded it into battle?

Then you thought incorrectly.  'Your' refers to cards owned and controlled by the player that activated the ability.  That is the extent of the meaning of 'your.'

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

how is that possible, if 'your' is defined as the person in control AND possession of the card? as such, does benjamin not reads as:

If all of your [the person in possession and control] human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2009, 08:30:02 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: Master KChief on December 06, 2009, 08:11:48 PM
if 'your' is defined as the person in control AND possession of the card...

Read my post again.  That's not the definition of your.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Shofarblower

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 09:15:24 PM »
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I think we are trying too hard.
A special ability takes effect only when entering battle unless otherwise stated by the ability. Benjamin cannot get the CBN status because when he was brought into battle, the player activating the ability had a NT character in play (ET). So then, the last part of Benjamin's ability takes effect, Discard him after battle. It looks like an ingenious way to discard an annoying character to me.


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browarod

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Re: Benjamin
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 10:09:47 PM »
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Quote from: Shofarblower on December 06, 2009, 09:15:24 PM
It looks like an ingenious way to discard an annoying character to me.
That's what I was trying to do since 1/1 wouldn't have changed the outcome much in the band I had going :P
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