Author Topic: Battle Challenges (Read 4717 times)

BubbleBoy · « **on:** March 24, 2010, 10:05:31 AM »

This is a question which arose during a game vs. YMT: My opponent has Raiders' Camp in his territory with one of my heroes in it. I make a battle challenge, but he does not accept. Do I get my hero from RC back?

In other words, is your opponent not accepting a battle challenge the same thing as you winning the battle challenge?

In the end, we decided that it was, but I would just like to get confirmation.

Red · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:11:58 AM »

when did you play YMT? your discion as far as my knolege is correct.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:17:25 AM »

Quote from: RED on March 24, 2010, 10:11:58 AM

when did you play YMT?

When I was in Florida.

Red · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:20:33 AM »

why are there no players in AL? why why why?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:31:39 AM »

Assuming no other actions take place (Christian Martyr, Unholy Writ, etc.) an unblocked battle challenge is a successful one.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:03:11 AM »

I never knew that before...Where is this in the rulebook (or REG)?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:25:52 AM »

Quote from: RED on March 24, 2010, 10:20:33 AM

why are there no players in AL? why why why?

Cuz of your lack of punctuation

Naw I kid, I think there are a few AL people on the boards.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:29:56 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 24, 2010, 11:03:11 AM

I never knew that before...Where is this in the rulebook (or REG)?

I'm not sure. But it's been that way forever. When you play Death of Unrighteous against me, it's always been understood that I fail the rescues attempt, but I win the battle challenge, since I am now unblocked. It's the same thing here.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:38:40 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 24, 2010, 11:29:56 AM

When you play Death of Unrighteous against me, it's always been understood that I fail the rescues attempt, but I win the battle challenge, since I am now unblocked. It's the same thing here.

I know that this is the case, but the difference here is that when my opponent denies my battle challenge, any semblance of a battle never existed. No Lost Souls were ever available. No Evil Character was ever in battle. There was no object in fighting and there was no fight. It's not the same thing as when I start a rescue attempt when there are souls out and my opponent blocks, shuffles all the Lost Souls, and dies. Not the same at all.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:47:04 AM »

If you punch me, and I don't punch back. You've won the fight.

STAMP · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2010, 11:49:40 AM »

Obviously the new REG will need to wordsmith this current REG entry:

Quote from: Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Battle Phase > Block

Block
Your opponent must decide whether to block your rescue attempt or battle challenge. If your opponent chooses to block, he should place an Evil Character into the Field of Battle to fight your Hero. This Evil Character can come from his territory or his hand. Some Evil Characters have a special ability printed over the picture on the card. This special ability does not become active until the Evil Character enters battle. Once the Evil Character enters battle, the special ability is activated. The instructions on the card must be applied at that moment. If the special ability includes the word “may,” your opponent has the choice of activating the special ability or skipping it for that battle.

If your opponent does not block your rescue attempt otherwise stop your Hero, then your Hero crosses the Battle unchallenged and rescues one Lost Soul. A may be played to prevent this. (See Dominants Played During the Battle Phase).

NOTE: Certain artifacts may stop a Hero from rescuing a Lost Soul. Unholy Writ is one such artifact. This artifact can be used to capture a human Hero even if no Evil Character blocks.

If your opponent does not block your battle challenge, then your Hero must withdraw from the Field of Battle back to your territory without playing any enhancements.

NOTE: Certain Heroes have a special ability that allows a player to play an enhancement before being blocked. Ethiopian Treasurer is one such Hero. This enhancement takes effect even if no Evil Character blocks.

More:

Example - Optional special abilities

Example - Negating special abilities

Example - Manditory special abilities

Example - Continuous special abilities

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2010, 12:13:25 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 24, 2010, 11:47:04 AM

If you punch me, and I don't punch back. You've won the fight.

This may be true. However, I don't think this is a good analogy. My opponent wasn't even there to punch. It's more like this:

"Hey, wanna fight?"
"Why would I do that?"
"I dunno, just because..."
"Um...no thanks."
"K, bye."

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2010, 12:28:24 PM »

His S.a. activated, his numbers were there, so he hit YOU(even though it may not even affect you), he just didn't hit your little EC buddies.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2010, 12:47:11 PM »

So you are saying that the card is hitting the player? Well, I suppose he has the paper cut tactic on his side...

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:12:28 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 24, 2010, 12:47:11 PM

So you are saying that the card is hitting the player? Well, I suppose he has the paper cut tactic on his side...

That's how MTG works, you fight the player and the characters are proxies. Redemption stays away from this except in this situation. Basically, a battle begins when a hero is presented. If no EC shows up, the hero still won the battle, even though no fighting occurred.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:25:51 PM »

I don't like that at all...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:28:19 PM »

RC would be borken otherwise.

D-man · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:31:14 PM »

When a hero goes unblocked in a rescue attempt, he's won the battle, hasn't he? The same applies to a battle challenge.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2010, 03:04:52 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on March 24, 2010, 02:28:19 PM

RC would be borken otherwise.

. I am confident this issue will be clarified in the new rulebook/REG.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2010, 03:50:45 PM »

Quote from: D-man on March 24, 2010, 02:31:14 PM

When a hero goes unblocked in a rescue attempt, he's won the battle, hasn't he? The same applies to a battle challenge.

The difference is that in a battle challenge, there is no Soul to rescue, meaning there is no real object to the fighting, which in turn should mean (IMHO) that you should just be able to say no thank you, have a nice day.

It's true that that would make RC more powerful, but there are so many ways to put Lost Souls in opponent's territory now, not to mention all the ways to get rid of forts.

STAMP · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2010, 04:43:35 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 24, 2010, 03:50:45 PM

Quote from: D-man on March 24, 2010, 02:31:14 PM
When a hero goes unblocked in a rescue attempt, he's won the battle, hasn't he? The same applies to a battle challenge.
The difference is that in a battle challenge, there is no Soul to rescue, meaning there is no real object to the fighting, which in turn should mean (IMHO) that you should just be able to say no thank you, have a nice day.

It's true that that would make RC more powerful, but there are so many ways to put Lost Souls in opponent's territory now, not to mention all the ways to get rid of forts.

No, they are the same except for the availability of a lost soul. Once a battle challenge starts that goes unblocked then it goes to battle resolution just like a rescue attempt.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2010, 05:38:31 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 24, 2010, 04:43:35 PM

Once a battle challenge starts then it goes to battle resolution just like a rescue attempt.

This is what I am saying. I feel like if my opponent does not block a battle challenge, the battle challenge never really started. If someone breaks into my house to steal something but finds nothing there to steal, I will probably be less apt to fight him back that if he had his hands on my plasma screen TV. This might be a cruddy example, but I am very tired right now and am leaving!

STAMP · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2010, 06:50:08 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 24, 2010, 05:38:31 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 24, 2010, 04:43:35 PM
Once a battle challenge starts then it goes to battle resolution just like a rescue attempt.
This is what I am saying. I feel like if my opponent does not block a battle challenge, the battle challenge never really started. If someone breaks into my house to steal something but finds nothing there to steal, I will probably be less apt to fight him back that if he had his hands on my plasma screen TV. This might be a cruddy example, but I am very tired right now and am leaving!

You actually pointed something out that I had forgetton to include in that statement. I'll go fix it now. On that note, I don't believe we're saying the same thing. Once a hero is presented, a battle has started. Once the opponent refuses to block, then battle resolution starts. It's the same for RA and BC.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2010, 07:13:39 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 24, 2010, 06:50:08 PM

I don't believe we're saying the same thing.

We certainly are not, and I hope I haven't implied such.

Quote

Once a hero is presented, a battle has started. Once the opponent refuses to block, then battle resolution starts. It's the same for RA and BC.

Is this in the rules? I thought it was, in which case this argument is probably pointless anyway, but if it is not, then I hope to have it defined differently.

The definition of a battle requires that more than one side must be involved in a struggle. In the case where someone punches me in the face and I do not respond, this is not a conflict. Only one side is involved in a struggle of any sort. A "battle" never took place at all. Even if there is an aim of some sort for the battle, if I do nothing while a thief sacks my house and takes all my valuables (or a Hero goes into my LoB and takes a Lost Soul away), again, there has been no conflict - no battle.

At least, this is how I see it.

STAMP · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2010, 07:31:37 PM »

I understand your argument but that would require a tremendous re-write of the rules. I won't say that it won't ever happen. It is highly unlikely. But if you're determined you need to maybe start with a grass roots movement...like a society or foundation.

News:

Author Topic: Battle Challenges (Read 4717 times)