Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Banded characters into battle from hand, then the band is negated

Do the characters kicked out of battle go back to hand or territory? Can they go to either?

i don't see anything in the reg regarding it and there seems to be no definitive ruling on it but i've seen it ruled they go to territory for some reason

I didn't realize that about the dull LS. So if it is negated and your blocker goes back how do you reset your deck and put the searched card back where it belongs in the deck?

Do you get to block with a different EC?

apparently you do not get to block again after the searched out ec is shuffled

The presenting of a blocker is CBI, which is why someone can't interrupt a pre-block choose the blocker card. (I.E. Ehud rescues and chooses King of Tyrus, KoT negates Ehud but the presenting is inherently CBI).

I have played and seen it played that negating a Dull that grabbed an EC could be negated to send the EC back to deck, but maybe that does need to re-evaluated with further discussion.

The presenting of a blocker is CBI, which is why someone can't interrupt a pre-block choose the blocker card. (I.E. Ehud rescues and chooses King of Tyrus, KoT negates Ehud but the presenting is inherently CBI).

I have played and seen it played that negating a Dull that grabbed an EC could be negated to send the EC back to deck, but maybe that does need to re-evaluated with further discussion.

I don't think that first part is right.  Pre-block CTB is CBI, per the REG.  But presenting a blocker being CBI is something else - ignoring Dull, that still means getting a blocker from Tower of Thebez isn't stopped by negating Tower of Thebez.  Maybe it should be CBI.

Dull doesn't put the card in play, so it's not covered by play abilities being CBI.  Making the playing of a card CBI is certainly an option, but that potentially has a major ripple effect.

The idea of playing 3 Woes to negate a soul to kick your EC out to win a battle feels really bad to me. Worse if you band in Moses or push dragon raid, or Isaiah and Call. I just think it's super lame.

all of those options have been real rescues lately

Another example I could think of is if (for some reason) you use The Gates of Hell to add a demon into battle (as the first EC) and then it gets negated and discarded by Shipwreck. Would the defender be able to present another EC in this scenario?

Quote from: The Guardian on June 12, 2017, 08:04:57 PM

The presenting of a blocker is CBI, which is why someone can't interrupt a pre-block choose the blocker card. (I.E. Ehud rescues and chooses King of Tyrus, KoT negates Ehud but the presenting is inherently CBI).

I have played and seen it played that negating a Dull that grabbed an EC could be negated to send the EC back to deck, but maybe that does need to re-evaluated with further discussion.

I don't think that first part is right.  Pre-block CTB is CBI, per the REG.  But presenting a blocker being CBI is something else - ignoring Dull, that still means getting a blocker from Tower of Thebez isn't stopped by negating Tower of Thebez.  Maybe it should be CBI.

Dull doesn't put the card in play, so it's not covered by play abilities being CBI.  Making the playing of a card CBI is certainly an option, but that potentially has a major ripple effect.

Aggie is correct. I spoke with Justin about his comment because what I hear him saying doesn't line up with my understanding of the rules. He told me all he was trying to say is that a choose the blocker ability played pre-block is CBI by game rule.

The act of choosing a character to put into battle (in this case the defender choosing who to block with) is not CBI. You can change the character's right to be in play (aka, negate an ability that brought it from deck or reserve effectively removing it).

The ability to negate an opponent's search of the blocker has been around for quite some time, it's not new with the Dull or Darkness souls. Back when Disciples was new Philistines were a popular defense. There were rare occasions where the defender would use Philistine Outpost, grab and block with a generic Philistine and have it removed by My Lord and My God taking out the Outpost. There might even be a thread on the boards involving that if someone wanted to search it up.

The Dull Lost Soul can be a high reward LS if you're opponent plays an offense that triggers it a lot. But using the character you search out to block the same battle is risky business. You get one opportunity to choose the character you block with. If SoG or 3W negates the search, your character is removed by special ability and you can be left without a blocker. If the card that negates Dull and subsequently removes the blocker is not CBN (like Dominants are) then it will pass special initiative.

Yes.

No. Choose the blocker abilities used pre-block are CBI. See the REG entry.

No. My understanding is that the character goes to territory.

I'm not able to do the research I need to adequately answer your question right now. It's possible there's no backing for that old method of play. That was the rule when I started playing but many things weren't codified then. I've wondered that myself a couple of times during games but never remembered to look into it later.

I'm not able to do the research I need to adequately answer your question right now. It's possible there's no backing for that old method of play. That was the rule when I started playing but many things weren't codified then. I've wondered that myself a couple of times during games but never remembered to look into it later.

I'd like to know if it is even a rule then as it seems like an exception which isn't in the reg?

It's kind of important now with all of the dual alignment and banding which is how it came up in a game. Assuming it will come up commonly ie conquer to war from hand

Thanks for the discussion as always!

What about an enhancement searched out by dull. If I search stone of Thebez and play it to kill one of 2 hero's in battle. My opponent negates dull. What happens to stone? What about the fact that the ability triggered CBN or not? Could I negate my own dull in order to put an enhancement back in my deck on purpose to play it again later?

There used to be a note in the REG that CBN cards that had been played "stick" and weren't returned to deck if the draw was negated.  I don't remember it ever being in any other entries, like search.