Author Topic: Balaam’s Disobedience (Read 5715 times)

Gabe · « **on:** October 11, 2008, 11:18:17 PM »

Does Balaam's Disobedience continually check to see if an Angel is in battle or does it only check at the time that the card is played?

Ex: Rescuer has an angel and a human Hero in battle. Blocker plays Balaam's Disobedience. Blocker plays Christian Martyr on the angel. Is the blocker now immune to the human Hero?

Balaam’s Disobedience
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Evil Character is immune to human Heroes unless an angel is in Battle. This ability cannot be negated.

soul seeker · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2008, 11:25:18 PM »

you sure are getting into a lot of sticky situations!!!

The Guardian · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:09:20 AM »

Quote from: soul seeker on October 11, 2008, 11:25:18 PM

you sure are getting into a lot of sticky situations!!!

Indeed...however they were some very good games.

Gabe · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:12:47 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on October 12, 2008, 12:09:20 AM

Indeed...however they were some very good games.

For sure!

Sticky situations are bound to come up when you're at a table with Justin and Chis.

Bryon · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:36:25 AM »

I can see it both ways.

option a: immunity is onging, and thus checks are ongoing.

option b: checks are instant or ongoing based on the wording of the card.
It does not say "while an angel is not in battle." THAT would be an ongoing check.

"ECs are immune" immediately turns on the ongoing immune ability. However, there is a condition that the "EC are immune" does not apply at that instant. That condition is "Unless an angel is in battle." That condition is only checked once, since "unless an angel IS in battle" is present tense and seems to indicate an immediate check.

I'm perfectly happy with either option.

Thoughts?

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:58:39 AM »

I read Balaam's Disobedience as either granting the immunity when it's played or not granting the immunity when it's played based on the condition it sets.

I could see it go either way also but that's my initial take when I read the card.

The Guardian · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2008, 01:34:06 AM »

Consider the following scenario if that was the case:

Player attacks with human Hero.
EC blocks and plays BD and is immune.
Player bands in an angel.
EC is still immune even though there is an angel in battle.

I see that as being very counter-intuitive and confusing based on how the card reads.

I vote for on-going checks.

Gabe · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2008, 01:38:48 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on October 12, 2008, 01:34:06 AM

Player attacks with human Hero.
EC blocks and plays BD and is immune.
Player bands in an angel.
EC is still immune even though there is an angel in battle.

That would be confusing if it was a one time check when the card was played.

SirNobody · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2008, 02:26:11 AM »

Hey,

I have always understood it to be a dynamic condition.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.frewebs.com/redemptionne

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2008, 02:45:35 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on October 12, 2008, 01:34:06 AM

Consider the following scenario if that was the case:

Player attacks with human Hero.
EC blocks and plays BD and is immune.
Player bands in an angel.
EC is still immune even though there is an angel in battle.

I see that as being very counter-intuitive and confusing based on how the card reads.

I vote for on-going checks.

Thats how I see it. In fact I do believe I've done that before in a game

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:31:53 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on October 12, 2008, 01:34:06 AM

Player attacks with human Hero.
EC blocks and plays BD and is immune.
Player bands in an angel.

My student: Hah, now you're not immune anymore.
Me: Actually I still am.
Student: But it says "unless" and angel is in battle, and there is an angel in battle.
Me: Yeah, but it is too late.
Student: But it doesn't say there is a time limit. Argghhh!

This is another one of those where I don't want to have this conversation with someone I am teaching the game to. Therefore, I vote ongoing check.

The Schaef · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2008, 09:40:30 PM »

Plus it's consistent with Nero et al, where you can be immune to a lone Hero, they band in a second Hero, immunity turns off.

It seems most logical to me that the "angel in battle" is a switch that turns the immunity on and off as the circumstances change.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2008, 04:32:08 AM »

So it would be correct.
R.a. Jael,
1/1 gray blocks plays balaams dis. (immune)
sound the trumpet played to band in coth (Not immune)
cm played on coth ( re-Immune)
?

The Guardian · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:28:07 AM »

If you mean Sound the Alarm, yes.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2008, 08:59:15 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on October 13, 2008, 04:32:08 AM

R.a. Jael,
1/1 gray blocks plays balaams dis. (immune)
sound the trumpet played to band in coth (Not immune)
cm played on coth ( re-Immune)

Yeah, I think that would work. I think this would also work:

RA w/ Gabriel Gathered to Amasai
Ahithophel blocks, plays Disobedience (not immune)
CM played on Gabriel (immune)
Sound the Trumpet played to band in Michael (re-un-immune)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2008, 12:00:14 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on October 13, 2008, 05:28:07 AM

If you mean Sound the Alarm, yes.

yay for 4 am postings!

SirNobody · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2008, 04:53:05 PM »

Hey,

The mention of Nero makes it pretty clear to me that there is a default condition for immune abilities that any conditions on an immune ability is a dynamic condition.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2008, 07:39:10 PM »

Pretty sure you're the only one. This isn't a blanket statement of all immune cards.

lightningninja · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:06:41 PM »

I say ongoing. It seems to make more sense.

If an angel didn't appear in the story RIGHT then, well, if the angel just appeared a little late(or revisited) then I think Balaam would have still had the same reaction. So I think for the game and Biblically it should be ongoing.

And because I say so.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2008, 09:25:56 PM »

Balaam’s Disobedience
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Evil Character is immune to human Heroes unless an angel is in Battle. This ability cannot be negated.

I tend to think the wording of the SA would cause it to be an ongoing check in this case. WIth "unless" in the SA, I can see this as 1. the EC could be immune to the human Hero and then an Angel is banded in and now the EC is not immune, because the "unless" criteria has been meet. 2. Human and Angel are in battle together, BD has been played, blocker CMs the Angel to become immune to the human Hero, because an Angel is no longer in battle.
Just my thoughts.

Godspeed,
Mike

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Author Topic: Balaam’s Disobedience (Read 5715 times)

The Schaef