Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Unless stated otherwise abilities default to play so unless I'm missing something, no.

Abilities default to play but do conditions? (I couldn't confirm it from the REG) Based on the definitions of both "Opponent's" and "Control" I would say it should count. Opponent's Cards are defined as those they own and control and they control the cards in set aside.

My understanding is that Babel counts play and set aside (cards opponent owns and controls).

Let me lay out the reason I'm confused about this.

An ability is a set of sentences with connected effects within a special ability. The effects may be
connected by a common target or set of targets, by being paired with a previous effect or by an
effect needing information about the target(s) of a previous effect. An ability targets the cards its
effects target.

So an ability targets the cards it's effects target.

A modifier is part of a special ability that modifies abilities or effects. Modifiers are not
themselves abilities, but alter the behavior of abilities or effects. Whether a modifier targets an
ability or effect depends on the type of modifier. ...[ ] ...
A modifier may have one or more conditions included as part of the modifier.

x in the identifier is a condition and therefore part of a modifier to the negate effect.

Conditional Phrases and Ability Classes
Each phrase that is checking the game state or for events is associated with one or more types of
abilities:
• “If [event]” or “when [event]” is an ongoing check for that event to happen, and indicates
a triggered effect.
• Any phrase that indicates a specific time (“after battle”, “on return”, “each upkeep”) an
ongoing check for that event, and indicates a triggered effect.
• “If [game state]” is an immediate check of the game state, and indicates an immediate
effect or a modifier.
• “While [game state]” or “during [game state]” is an ongoing check of the game state, and
indicates 1) an activated effect if there is an optional instant effect, 2) an instant effect
with a duration if there is a mandatory instant effect, or 3) an ongoing effect or modifier
that updates its targeting or status as the status of the condition changes.
• “At any time” and “when holder chooses” are ongoing checks of the game state and
indicate an ability with an activated effect.
• An optional instant effect with a usage limit other than a per game usage limit is an
activated effect that can be activated as long as the usage limit has not been met in the
specified timeframe.

• X defined in an identifier is an ongoing check of the game state, and is updating the value
of X as it changes, if applicable. X defining a number of targets is static when the targets
are declared, X defining a value that targets have is dynamic and updates as X changes.

• “... unless [game state]” is a check of the game state that matches the type of effect or
modifier it follows - ongoing for ongoing, instant for instant.

Ongoing checks of the game state are fluid and can update the effects of the abilities they are part
of even while other effects are resolving, but any activated effects cannot be activated until no
effects are resolving. Ongoing checks for events cannot activate the triggered effect until no
effects are activating or completing.
If any ongoing check of the game state ceases to be true for any reason, then the activated effect
can no longer be activated, the duration of an instant effect ends, or the ongoing effect or
modifier ceases to be active.

x in the identifier updates the effects of the ability it is a part of.

An effect is part of an ability that acts upon a target. Targets are usually cards, abilities, or
players.

An effect is part of an ability and targets abilities, etc.

The default locations of targets for effects are as follows:
Activate an Artifact: Hand or Artifact pile
Add to Battle, Band, Choose Opponent, Present: In a territory or hand
Change Hand Size, Restrict: A player
Draw: Top of deck
End the Battle: Current battle
Equip: Enhancements in hand and characters in play
Interrupt, Negate, Prevent: Abilities on cards in play
......

and the default location for a negate effect is in play.

So in summary. x in the identifier is part of a modifier to an effect that negates a card in this case but for some reason x isn't limited to the same default targetting locations as the negate effect which it is a part of? This also gets kind of weird because technically x doesn't directly tie into the negate effect but is a modifier to the toughness of characters negated. which I think would still be considered part of the negate effect and therefore subject to the same targetting conditions as the negate effect.

So identifier targetting is separate from the effects which they modify

Yup, way overthinking it