Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Does AOC target captured evil characters? If not, what about captured demons as they are not considered lost souls?

No and no. Although Captured Demons are not LSs, they are not Demons either.

All these questions relate to this thread so I thought it best to place it here.  Please correct me if this is not what the moderators want.

How are captured demons treated (which this post indicates are not technically demons) - Can they be rescued ever?  What happens when an opponent having no lost souls makes a B C or R A and all that currently is in your land of bondage is captured demons?  Do these demons return to the E C territory of the rescuing hero making the B C or R A or in a multiplayer game do they return to the owners territory?

Currently our group (T1 multiplayer) is treating captured E C (not demon's) & Hero's (What about angels?) as Lost Souls - there special abilities don't work in the Land of Bondage and when your opponent makes a R A and it is successful - these character's go to rescuing player's land of redemption (again there special abilities are not active).  Are we playing this correctly? 

Sad - then -  Rules of Game > Theology

This ruling reinforces the maker of Redemption's theology of Falling Away  (which interestingly is negated with the first four words on the card's verse - "For it is impossible") - I could have let that slide - call it backslide but really - Hero's losing salvation? So if my Hero John kills someone on the Isle of Patmos - poof - go directly to the LoB - don't pass go - no how no way? 

Study Hebrews - not just one verse - then study the Tabernacle (which Hebrews deals with) and tell me how this can be? Even the same chapter where the Falling Away appears in Hebrews is clear -

Heb 6:19 - Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb. 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.   

If I can fall away - Where is Grace?  If I can return to the land of bondage - What work do I have to constantly perform to return to my redeemed state?  This negates Eph. 2:8,9 

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph. 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are there alternate or advanced rules of Redeeming hero's in LoB? We need a new booster with all the Eternal Security verses's - this would make well over a hundred new cards - we can call it the Eternal Security Booster Pack.   

So actually, Falling Away should not only remove the LS from the LoB, but it should also either d/c it, or remove it from the game since i should not be able to be rescued again.

Quote from: tom4coop on March 28, 2012, 11:59:23 AM

Rules of Game > Theology 

It should be like this it is a game after all, Theology should not hamper game rules.

It is not just any game - it is a game surrounded by / and uses Scripture = Impossible to separate Theology (Study of God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit in one person = not muslim game).  It is a "Christ-ian game" - it is marketed as such and is played by children = Responsibility to the Integrity of Scripture = Influence

The maker of this game is well aware of this - I am sure.   

As lp stated the potential for theological disparity between players exists, so we need to take precaution so conflict can be avoided and that's why things are the way they are, for you it seems to be game > theology but for other it's theologically accurate.  I think Rob prefers the game to be pretty non-denominational in order to keep conflict from arising. 

Additionally marketing this as a kids game is not what actually happens, I have never gotten that impression from Redemption, a game that commonly involves very mature themes.  Including * cough * unfaithful wives, magic, and demonic influences.  As such it is better to market it for what it is.  A good CCG that is based on biblical themes.  I'm not saying that the themes in the game aren't Christian or that there aren't bible verses on the cards (a fact that I think is really cool btw)  but it isn't a 'kids-game.' 

This will be my last post on this subject so as to honor the Cactus Games forum –arguing doesn’t resolve much – I have posted my equations above. 

To Ip670sv – I agree with you in regards to demons being unredeemable – I applaud in fact the maker of the game for this.  “Once saved always saved” is sounds to me is debatable for you – for me and my house, church, friends, family and pretty much everyone I know who is not lost – IT IS NOT.  I feel this issue is a critical doctrine to teach to new believers – especially children.  Ip670sv - if it is not mainstream in your life – it should be.  Otherwise your axiom / equation’s final destination is - works (to protect salvation) > Grace = still in LoB = Ip670sv – Salvation is a free gift and will not be taken back. 

Pointing these equations for me is just stating “Truth” – we are all created equal – we all have opinions that differ and what kind of man would I be if I didn’t share this with you?  I couldn’t even be true to myself.  This is my Biblical World View / Reality. 

To Wings of Music – Redemption is fun and it is really cool and maybe your right – it isn’t a ‘kids – game’  - however it doesn’t change the fact that many under the age of 18 years of age play this CCG (if not the majority) = Influence.  I will stick to that equation.   In regards to Cactus's preference that it remain a non-denominational game. Falling Away / Hero’s becoming L S’s  need of “Rescuing” – is not.  It represents a very specific denomination and movement in the U.S.  entering all denominations.  This will never = Theological Accuracy in my book. 

To Galadgawyn - For you there is middle ground on Eternal Security?  Yes – I can see falling away as backsliding – (My first theological post referenced this) – “I can let that slide” (hint) – won’t enter Guardian of your Soul debate though – and you may be surprised on how we currently see this card . 

In regards to your second paragraph - regardless of how you see the LoB (say Figuratively, Symbolically)  this doesn’t change the fact that there is someone who is rescuing them – redeeming them.  Obliged via rules or scripture to do so - If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; Prov. 24:12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?  -  Maybe your refering to like a "Navy Seal's" going into a physical prison, killing all the bad guys and rescuing Paul - thus sparing him execution.  I could go for that but Paul counted all for joy in prison - he was at peace - he was free in Christ Spiritually and his philosophy is summed up in Scripture - For me to live is Christ - To Die is gain. Shuffle Him Discard Him - Doesn't matter = His Gained and On Going Ability - Amen!

In regards to your final paragraph - Broad is the path and narrow is the way.  Good is not Great – Don’t settle for O.K. - Don’t be nonchalant.  Redemption is not just good, O.K. or nonchalant – it is professional in everything it does – it is deep – it is complex (this is obvious and I have just started learning the game) it is worth playing when played correctly.  Don’t do things that go against God’s word “so we can all get along” – there are times things should not be status quo.  Nike = Just do it.

My final thoughts:  If a Christian child (painstakingly) learns Redemption and uses Falling Away or Redeems Hero’s repeatedly – this for our group  = actively simulating things that go against our own / parents belief’s thus reinforcing false doctrine. Not good =

Cactus, players who believe as we do – you can change the rules to accurately reflect the Bible, the true Creator and a True Biblical Worldview.  We have done this – you can too - without a rebellion and without harsh words - let us use our influence on Cactus to move in this direction.  Here on the Islands we call them “Eternally Secure” rules and encourage Cactus to come out with the Eternally Secure booster pack – we know they know the verses – the game clearly reflects their knowledge of Scripture.  Take the game to another level – where it will never be forgotten.  $ < Truth

Selah

I want to be part of this!